9 ms·

It's a scam, certainly, but it's actually great customer service policy. If the only risk is the loss of value of a product to Amazon, and there is no personal

It's a scam, certainly, but it's actually great customer service policy. If the only risk is the loss of value of a product to Amazon, and there is no personal data loss for a customer directly, then it's actually an acceptable loss policy to Amazon. They (and most good businesses) would prefer the majority of their customer base be able to get refunds and deal with order issues swiftly than have to jump through hoops to prove who they are. Certainly an SMS PIN or other authentication method would make it more secure, but there is no further customer benefit. The monetary loss to Amazon is basically a rounding error so why make things more complicated?

joshj19 14y ago
This exactly. The net benefit to Amazon from improved customer service is likely worth the potential for a few lost products. Sure may be wrong, but to them it may just be a cost of doing business. It's not unlike many department store's policy of not targeting a shoplifter-in-action in a mall, especially once they've left the store (mostly for liability reasons).
- ghshephard 14y ago
  "many department store's policy of not targeting a shoplifter-in-action in a mall" Citation? I've never heard of such a policy. Every mall I've had knowledge of had a very extensive security organization that was pretty effective at targeting shoplifters-in-action.
  - mscarborough 14y ago
    Apart from personal experience working in grocery stores, where nobody really cares, there is this: http://marga.voxpublica.org/2012/08/shoplifting-and-magnetic-anti-theft-devices/ http://marga.voxpublica.org/2012/08/shoplifting-and-magnetic... Depends on where you go and which mall. Strip malls are a lot less effective with countering shoplifters than the 'real' malls.
- SyneRyder 14y ago
  Interesting. I was at a mall last week where a security guard had caught a shoplifter, and the guard was downright friendly with the guy. It appeared that he was just going to let him go. The guard was asking the guy whether he'd shoplifted before, why he did it etc, but in a very relaxed conversational way. I hadn't thought of it as a customer service policy (both not to scare customers and keeping a potential future customer). I also talked to a science-fiction / hobby store owner years ago, who mentioned that most of the shoplifters they caught had also been their best customers. (His policy was to ban them from the store, though.)
rizzom5000 14y ago
It surely appears a great customer service policy. Unfortunately, the cost of fraud, waste and loss is passed on to honest consumers in the form of overall higher prices. It's probably true that Amazon can still offer generally competitive prices despite scams like this; but in principle, I agree with the OP. And not necessarily because it would mean slightly lower prices for myself or slightly higher profits for Amazon; but simply because I dislike knowing that I'm complicit in the scam for the sake of my own convenience. Especially when that convenience means having an item re-shipped to a different address that I never used before, which happens to be the address to a 're-shipping' organization.
- salvadors 14y ago
  > Unfortunately, the cost of fraud, waste and loss is passed on to honest consumers in the form of overall higher prices. In Amazon's case it's also possible to argue that the cost of fraud, waste and loss is passed on to honest consumers in the form of overall lower prices. Customer service policies like this are a significant part of what allowed Amazon to grow to be the company it is today, and Amazon has used that power (some would say abused it), to drive prices lower than they would otherwise have been on many items. > Especially when that convenience means having an item re-shipped to a different address that I never used before, I'm personally very glad that they allow this, having had to had a broken Kindle replaced whilst on holiday in a different country.
  - pbhjpbhj 14y ago
    >having had to had a broken Kindle replaced whilst on holiday // What would the negative repercussions of Amazon only shipping to the original verified shipping address have been - waiting a week to get your free replacement kindle? I'd say it's ridiculous to re-ship to a different address based on an unverified claim of non-delivery; especially for high-cost items.
    - salvadors 14y ago
      No; waiting 9 weeks to get it. And as I read much more when I'm on holiday, and one of the reasons I bought a Kindle in the first place was so I didn't have to carry dozens of books on such a trip, I'm very glad that they were willing to ship it to not only a different address, but a different country.
sliverstorm 14y ago
It's great customer service, but what happens when the scam takes off and starts impacting their margins? Profits go down, prices go up, and customers start leaving.
bigiain 14y ago
"If the only risk is the loss of value of a product to Amazon" Unfortunately, that's externalizing the real cost to the customer of having their account flagged as "possibly fraudulent".

joshj19 14y ago

This exactly. The net benefit to Amazon from improved customer service is likely worth the potential for a few lost products. Sure may be wrong, but to them it may just be a cost of doing business. It's not unlike many department store's policy of not targeting a shoplifter-in-action in a mall, especially once they've left the store (mostly for liability reasons).

ghshephard 14y ago
"many department store's policy of not targeting a shoplifter-in-action in a mall" Citation? I've never heard of such a policy. Every mall I've had knowledge of had a very extensive security organization that was pretty effective at targeting shoplifters-in-action.
- mscarborough 14y ago
  Apart from personal experience working in grocery stores, where nobody really cares, there is this: http://marga.voxpublica.org/2012/08/shoplifting-and-magnetic-anti-theft-devices/ http://marga.voxpublica.org/2012/08/shoplifting-and-magnetic... Depends on where you go and which mall. Strip malls are a lot less effective with countering shoplifters than the 'real' malls.
SyneRyder 14y ago
Interesting. I was at a mall last week where a security guard had caught a shoplifter, and the guard was downright friendly with the guy. It appeared that he was just going to let him go. The guard was asking the guy whether he'd shoplifted before, why he did it etc, but in a very relaxed conversational way. I hadn't thought of it as a customer service policy (both not to scare customers and keeping a potential future customer). I also talked to a science-fiction / hobby store owner years ago, who mentioned that most of the shoplifters they caught had also been their best customers. (His policy was to ban them from the store, though.)

rizzom5000 14y ago

It surely appears a great customer service policy. Unfortunately, the cost of fraud, waste and loss is passed on to honest consumers in the form of overall higher prices. It's probably true that Amazon can still offer generally competitive prices despite scams like this; but in principle, I agree with the OP. And not necessarily because it would mean slightly lower prices for myself or slightly higher profits for Amazon; but simply because I dislike knowing that I'm complicit in the scam for the sake of my own convenience. Especially when that convenience means having an item re-shipped to a different address that I never used before, which happens to be the address to a 're-shipping' organization.

salvadors 14y ago
> Unfortunately, the cost of fraud, waste and loss is passed on to honest consumers in the form of overall higher prices. In Amazon's case it's also possible to argue that the cost of fraud, waste and loss is passed on to honest consumers in the form of overall lower prices. Customer service policies like this are a significant part of what allowed Amazon to grow to be the company it is today, and Amazon has used that power (some would say abused it), to drive prices lower than they would otherwise have been on many items. > Especially when that convenience means having an item re-shipped to a different address that I never used before, I'm personally very glad that they allow this, having had to had a broken Kindle replaced whilst on holiday in a different country.
- pbhjpbhj 14y ago
  >having had to had a broken Kindle replaced whilst on holiday // What would the negative repercussions of Amazon only shipping to the original verified shipping address have been - waiting a week to get your free replacement kindle? I'd say it's ridiculous to re-ship to a different address based on an unverified claim of non-delivery; especially for high-cost items.
  - salvadors 14y ago
    No; waiting 9 weeks to get it. And as I read much more when I'm on holiday, and one of the reasons I bought a Kindle in the first place was so I didn't have to carry dozens of books on such a trip, I'm very glad that they were willing to ship it to not only a different address, but a different country.

sliverstorm 14y ago

It's great customer service, but what happens when the scam takes off and starts impacting their margins? Profits go down, prices go up, and customers start leaving.

bigiain 14y ago

"If the only risk is the loss of value of a product to Amazon" Unfortunately, that's externalizing the real cost to the customer of having their account flagged as "possibly fraudulent".