6 ms·

I suspect this is a result of their attitude towards re-orders due to delivery issues, it would make sense that if CSR's are told "if a user wants a re-order, j

I suspect this is a result of their attitude towards re-orders due to delivery issues, it would make sense that if CSR's are told "if a user wants a re-order, just do it" that they'd not really consider the implications of allowing them with a new address, because their attitude is do whatever to keep the customer happy. I had a delivery of a game go missing (~$60 cost) so I opened a live chat and explained, then they shipped me a brand new order (which arrived!) without any hassle or confirmation that my prior delivery had really been stolen. This seems like a trivial thing to abuse (and I'm sure many do). After my free re-order was placed I thought "that was cool, I'll order from Amazon in the future just in case...".

city41 14y ago
I'm sure that is what they are counting on and once it happens to people they probably become very loyal customers. At a previous place I lived my neighbors stole two Amazon packages from my doorstep. Amazon had no problem not only sending out replacements, but sending them to my work address instead. It made me very much want to order from Amazon from then on.
- hysan 14y ago
  This customer service model, where the CSRs go above and beyond to help the customer with as little hassle as possible, is what built the initial customer base for Newegg. Those customers have largely remained loyal even though other online retailers have caught up in price. This is also what made Zappos very popular (eventually bought out by Amazon). So the strategy clearly works. I assume Amazon has calculated that the number of frauds is greatly outweighed by whatever business is generated from returning customers and great PR.
  - dalke 14y ago
    Your model should be made more dynamic, to include that Amazon can adjust to new fraudulent methods. Once a method is discovered for making fraudulent purchases, it will be reused and broadened. Like the story of the Dutch boy and the dike, it will get larger and larger until it collapses. Amazon no doubt figures that they can plug the hole early enough, and reports like this are part of that detection system.
- joshfraser 14y ago
  I ordered a TV from Amazon last week that never showed up. I don't know if UPS messed up or if it was stolen off my front step. Either way, I appreciated Amazon trusting me and dropping another one in the mail without making a big deal out of it. While it seems like Amazon have ignored this issue to date for all the right reasons, they may need to start addressing it since it obviously affects their real customers with worrying emails & the chance of being viewed with suspicion later on.
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    How can they afford to just give away TVs?
    - mhaymo 14y ago
      One tv isn't all that much to pay for a customer's loyalty on a site where he might potentially do all his shopping for the next 50 years.
      - mseebach 14y ago
        Also, either they or UPS probably have a pretty good insurance policy.
        gmac 14y ago
        Surely not. A company the size of Amazon/UPS doesn't need to pay someone else to shoulder the risk of them losing $500 now and again. But it must be factored into their margins.
        mseebach 14y ago
        Well, yes and no :) Even when you're self-insured (which is what you are when you've got risk factored into your margins), you're still insured.
        14y ago
- hef19898 14y ago
  What Amazon does after first time shipping adress changes (in Germany as of yesterday) is to re-ask for your full credit card number. After that the new shipping adress is part of the account and valid. But what I confirm is great customer service. Last week my sound card broke down after almost 2 years and it took about 5 minutes to get the return information and the according refund once the item showed up at amazon. No hassle what-so-ever with waranty issues and replacement of the original item, just a plain and simple refund. That's what customer service should be like. And that things like that can be exploited is true, but that's equaly true for almost all other things. If it's a calculated trade-off from amazon's side there shouldn't be a problem.
  - dman 14y ago
    I am surprised by your sound card story - I bought a graphics card last year where the initial batch had a lot of lemons, I got three broken graphics card in a row and each time Amazon refused to help me insisting that I should go through the manufacturer RMA process since the 1 month return window was over.
    - glogla 14y ago
      In most of EU, retailers are required by law to provide two year warranty on goods you buy as a consumer.
      - hef19898 14y ago
        Maybe thats the difference. I've been pretty surprised anyway since I didn't have the warranty slip ready (sometimes tidding up isn't that a good idea).
robflynn 14y ago
The same thing happened to me. Afterward, that prompted me to sign up for Amazon Prime. I had decided that if they were going to take care of me like that then I may as well dive right in. My Prime renewal is coming up in a few weeks and I will be renewing it. Hell, my girlfriend and I order light bulbs and various trivial household items via Amazon now. They've made it so easy for me. It sucks that people are taking advantage of that. I once ordered an item by mistake (oops, one click shipping!) I should have paid attention. I requested to return the item and fully expected to pay the shipping costs back. I explained that it is MY fault. They still told me that it wasn't a big deal and that they would cover the shipping back. I'm not sure what the proper solution is. I don't want to lose that helpfulness, but I hate for them to get ripped off, too, due to assholes. They've been very good to me and have quickly addressed any issue I've ever had.
- Semaphor 14y ago
  When my kindle broke (within one year though only barely) I asked if they wanted a picture of the error (frozen screen). I was told they don't need it and my brand new kindle (with added 3g, the broken one was wifi-only) should arrive in the next 2-3 days. So yeah, I hope their service stays as awesome as it is. On the other hand, the stuff recommended in the blog posts would be easy to implement without really making it more of a hassle (only ship to places already listed, ask for more than name, mail and address, collate chats).
michaelt 14y ago
This seems like a trivial thing to abuse (and I'm sure many do). I can't speak for Amazon, but at my employer, when a customer phones up or e-mails the customer service rep immediately sees certain details - number of orders by address, lifetime spend, spend in last 6 months, age of account and address, percentage refunds, fraud flags and so on. Needless to say, the more legitimate an account looks, the easier it is for them to get no-hassle refunds.
- alxndr 14y ago
  Corollary to that: the more legitimate an account looks, the more free stuff a scammer can get by pretending to be that account holder.
- nmcfarl 14y ago
  Heck, this happens at my company, and we're 2 co-founders and a CSR. This was literally one of the first things we built - as I imagine it must be for any biz that ships products to customers.
- line 14y ago
  Thats true but I'm sure Amazon has some form of blacklist somewhere in their risk management process. Or maybe that is not tied to csr changes and only in order processing. Having shipping patterns change especially to a ship forwarding sites is highly suspect. There are databases that can help flag these either done commercial or collected internally. I'm sure Amazon has a pretty extensive list.
yardie 14y ago
This seems like a trivial thing to abuse (and I'm sure many do). I used to think the same of Netflix DVDs when I had the 5 out service. For the life of that subscription I had 2 never show up. I talked to the CSR and he assured me they keep track of these things.
tomkarlo 14y ago
I suspect that part of what they do is look at your (likely very long) order history, and make the calculation that it's better to just reship rather than risk losing you as a customer. It's the benefit of having so much order activity over so much time - they know exactly how much a customer is worth to them. That's part of why this scam works - it trades on the existing goodwill / history of a longtime customer to get Amazon to do something un-economic.

city41 14y ago

I'm sure that is what they are counting on and once it happens to people they probably become very loyal customers. At a previous place I lived my neighbors stole two Amazon packages from my doorstep. Amazon had no problem not only sending out replacements, but sending them to my work address instead. It made me very much want to order from Amazon from then on.

hysan 14y ago
This customer service model, where the CSRs go above and beyond to help the customer with as little hassle as possible, is what built the initial customer base for Newegg. Those customers have largely remained loyal even though other online retailers have caught up in price. This is also what made Zappos very popular (eventually bought out by Amazon). So the strategy clearly works. I assume Amazon has calculated that the number of frauds is greatly outweighed by whatever business is generated from returning customers and great PR.
- dalke 14y ago
  Your model should be made more dynamic, to include that Amazon can adjust to new fraudulent methods. Once a method is discovered for making fraudulent purchases, it will be reused and broadened. Like the story of the Dutch boy and the dike, it will get larger and larger until it collapses. Amazon no doubt figures that they can plug the hole early enough, and reports like this are part of that detection system.
joshfraser 14y ago
I ordered a TV from Amazon last week that never showed up. I don't know if UPS messed up or if it was stolen off my front step. Either way, I appreciated Amazon trusting me and dropping another one in the mail without making a big deal out of it. While it seems like Amazon have ignored this issue to date for all the right reasons, they may need to start addressing it since it obviously affects their real customers with worrying emails & the chance of being viewed with suspicion later on.
- StavrosK 14y ago
  How can they afford to just give away TVs?
  - mhaymo 14y ago
    One tv isn't all that much to pay for a customer's loyalty on a site where he might potentially do all his shopping for the next 50 years.
    - mseebach 14y ago
      Also, either they or UPS probably have a pretty good insurance policy.
      - gmac 14y ago
        Surely not. A company the size of Amazon/UPS doesn't need to pay someone else to shoulder the risk of them losing $500 now and again. But it must be factored into their margins.
        mseebach 14y ago
        Well, yes and no :) Even when you're self-insured (which is what you are when you've got risk factored into your margins), you're still insured.
        14y ago
hef19898 14y ago
What Amazon does after first time shipping adress changes (in Germany as of yesterday) is to re-ask for your full credit card number. After that the new shipping adress is part of the account and valid. But what I confirm is great customer service. Last week my sound card broke down after almost 2 years and it took about 5 minutes to get the return information and the according refund once the item showed up at amazon. No hassle what-so-ever with waranty issues and replacement of the original item, just a plain and simple refund. That's what customer service should be like. And that things like that can be exploited is true, but that's equaly true for almost all other things. If it's a calculated trade-off from amazon's side there shouldn't be a problem.
- dman 14y ago
  I am surprised by your sound card story - I bought a graphics card last year where the initial batch had a lot of lemons, I got three broken graphics card in a row and each time Amazon refused to help me insisting that I should go through the manufacturer RMA process since the 1 month return window was over.
  - glogla 14y ago
    In most of EU, retailers are required by law to provide two year warranty on goods you buy as a consumer.
    - hef19898 14y ago
      Maybe thats the difference. I've been pretty surprised anyway since I didn't have the warranty slip ready (sometimes tidding up isn't that a good idea).

robflynn 14y ago

The same thing happened to me. Afterward, that prompted me to sign up for Amazon Prime. I had decided that if they were going to take care of me like that then I may as well dive right in. My Prime renewal is coming up in a few weeks and I will be renewing it. Hell, my girlfriend and I order light bulbs and various trivial household items via Amazon now. They've made it so easy for me. It sucks that people are taking advantage of that. I once ordered an item by mistake (oops, one click shipping!) I should have paid attention. I requested to return the item and fully expected to pay the shipping costs back. I explained that it is MY fault. They still told me that it wasn't a big deal and that they would cover the shipping back. I'm not sure what the proper solution is. I don't want to lose that helpfulness, but I hate for them to get ripped off, too, due to assholes. They've been very good to me and have quickly addressed any issue I've ever had.

Semaphor 14y ago
When my kindle broke (within one year though only barely) I asked if they wanted a picture of the error (frozen screen). I was told they don't need it and my brand new kindle (with added 3g, the broken one was wifi-only) should arrive in the next 2-3 days. So yeah, I hope their service stays as awesome as it is. On the other hand, the stuff recommended in the blog posts would be easy to implement without really making it more of a hassle (only ship to places already listed, ask for more than name, mail and address, collate chats).

michaelt 14y ago

This seems like a trivial thing to abuse (and I'm sure many do). I can't speak for Amazon, but at my employer, when a customer phones up or e-mails the customer service rep immediately sees certain details - number of orders by address, lifetime spend, spend in last 6 months, age of account and address, percentage refunds, fraud flags and so on. Needless to say, the more legitimate an account looks, the easier it is for them to get no-hassle refunds.

alxndr 14y ago
Corollary to that: the more legitimate an account looks, the more free stuff a scammer can get by pretending to be that account holder.
nmcfarl 14y ago
Heck, this happens at my company, and we're 2 co-founders and a CSR. This was literally one of the first things we built - as I imagine it must be for any biz that ships products to customers.
line 14y ago
Thats true but I'm sure Amazon has some form of blacklist somewhere in their risk management process. Or maybe that is not tied to csr changes and only in order processing. Having shipping patterns change especially to a ship forwarding sites is highly suspect. There are databases that can help flag these either done commercial or collected internally. I'm sure Amazon has a pretty extensive list.

yardie 14y ago

This seems like a trivial thing to abuse (and I'm sure many do). I used to think the same of Netflix DVDs when I had the 5 out service. For the life of that subscription I had 2 never show up. I talked to the CSR and he assured me they keep track of these things.

tomkarlo 14y ago

I suspect that part of what they do is look at your (likely very long) order history, and make the calculation that it's better to just reship rather than risk losing you as a customer. It's the benefit of having so much order activity over so much time - they know exactly how much a customer is worth to them. That's part of why this scam works - it trades on the existing goodwill / history of a longtime customer to get Amazon to do something un-economic.