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Sorry if this offends anyone but why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent. Why is it a zero-sum game? Want to be great at somet

Sorry if this offends anyone but why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent. Why is it a zero-sum game? Want to be great at something neglect your children to do so. Want to be a great parent, fine you have a mediocre career. From the article you are ambitious about building things. Well guess what children are, the ultimate piece of clay from which you get a front row seat to mold. If you are trying to compete with people who are kidless and constantly comparing your output to them, then yes, you are going to feel you are falling behind. But you need to stop and ask yourself, “what am I doing all this work for”? What is your goal? For me, having children changed my perspective on life. I am lucky to make enough money to live a good first world lifestyle and the rest is enjoying the moments life brings. I still have the motivation I had 20 years ago but that motivation has shifted from “building things for the wealthy” to building peace and happiness for myself and my family. I no longer work a ton of hours, but my day is still full of conversations, walks, work-outs, bike rides ect… These things when done with family and friends bring me level of accomplishment that no product launch ever did. Also, I openly avoid the hustle-grind culture that seems to run rampant these days. You seem to be on the correct path, just don’t fall into that trap that says you must be grinding 60+ hours a week in-order to be successful or happy. It will find you if you let it.

jmbwell 2mo ago
Hear hear. Although being great at something and being a great parent do not have to be mutually exclusive. You can work yourself to death with or without kids. You can also have a successful career and a great relationship with your family. This whole premise that one must come at the expense of the other seems like rationalizing, or excuse-making, or maybe just another caustic result of capitalism. And even if the drive to compete is so real, why stop at competing for either/or? Why not compete at being a whole person according to your own values? To hell with anyone who says you can’t have the life you want. Win at being yourself.
AlexandrB 2mo ago
> Why is it a zero-sum game? Not to be flippant, but it's a zero-sum game because time is finite. I think you know this too since the following paragraphs describe you making this tradeoff yourself.
- ron_woods 2mo ago
  Yea we only get so many trips around the sun and it sometimes feels like modern society tries to push you to win or go home. I have one child in college and one who just started high school (today) and I can tell you the pressure they are experiencing to "succeed" is immense. I have no clue how I would have handled that when I was in school. Probably not well.
sailfast 2mo ago
The article is not talking about having "a great career" (which you can have while also having good balance and focusing on things). To me, the article is more a lament. There is only so much time in this life, and if you're organized (I read that to mean intentional in your execution and not wasting time) then you apply that time to your highest priority. Work / building things / personal hobbies / your partner / your family / your kids - these all compete. It's impossible to do everything you'd LOVE to do in your building and hobbies without burning the candle on both ends a bit with the other priorities. You can do it for short periods, but eventually it catches up and you'll either do it all bad or sacrifice something. Time is finite. Desire / drive are not. Solve for X. I feel what the author is saying every day, but I'm OK with it because there's no question in my mind that my kids and family are going to be the best use of my time and what I'm thinking about on my death bed. Do I still sleep too little and occasionally overwork to execute? Yes - but you have to pick your spots. You just can't do it ALL. (And mind you - that's for me as an extremely involved, work-from-home, caring for children MAN. This is an entirely different equation if you're a female and you don't have support structure. Nobody can have it all but I've probably got the best shot at having a TON of it - but there are still trade-offs)
- TitaRusell 2mo ago
  In my country you're not entitled to your husband/wife money so both parents need to make sure that they're financially independent.
  - sailfast 2mo ago
    Do you mean in the case of divorce? Or in the case that a husband decides to not be a collaborating partner in raising a child? Obviously to be totally secure you need to make sure you have some money, but ideally it's a collaboration and not a competition even if the law doesn't provide an entitlement.
- nichochar 2mo ago
  i really like your framing, this encapsulates the problem very consisely: > Time is finite. Desire / drive are not. Solve for X
markus_zhang 2mo ago
Because energy is limited and TBH very few people are really fit for doing two jobs properly at the same time. Honestly, sometimes, or most of the times, a great career do demand more than 40 hours of work. You also need very good mental for both jobs, too.
wat10000 2mo ago
Sounds like you accept that the choice must be made, you've just accepted yours. And nothing wrong with that, of course.
cableshaft 2mo ago
> why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent. Why is it a zero-sum game? I had basically this exact conversation with a close family member, who sees having children as being forced to give up on her dreams of being a writer forever, which I just don't get (she's already written and released 4 novels which have made some decent money, just not enough to do it fulltime, and still has a day job in marketing that makes good money). For a little while it will likely mean a shift in focus, sure, but that doesn't mean you have to give up on something forever. I've mostly taken a break from designing games the past couple of years (unrelated to children, just not as motivated lately, there's so many great board games out there already I'm trying to just enjoy playing them for a while), but I haven't totally given up on being a game designer (plus I've already released several games in the past, that can't be taken away from me, even if basically no one is still playing those games nowadays). Plus children could also help enrich your life experience that lead to further inspiration for your creative efforts anyway, especially since it seems like the adult life experience society encourages nowadays seems to be sit in front of a computer all day for a day job, sit in front of a computer all evening for side hustle, get takeout, doomscroll/tv for a bit before going to sleep, repeat.
- sailfast 2mo ago
  Screaming hot take: sometimes folks use giving up on their dreams or ambitions as an excuse. (_sometimes_) But also it's just a different deal for mothers than fathers. Physically, mentally, it's just not comparable.
  - yoyohello13 2mo ago
    It is always funny to read these threads where all the men are saying how you don't need to compromise when they have a stay at home wife keeping it all together. It's a totally different ballgame for the majority of women.
    - cableshaft 2mo ago
      I stated she had a day job making pretty good money. That's not a stay at home wife. Also didn't say they don't need to compromise, obviously having children requires compromises to be made in your life, there's no way you can live it entirely the same way as you used to anymore. I said they don't need to totally give up on it forever. Thinking something has to be all or nothing is the opposite of compromise. That's essentially a self-imposed ultimatum. It's also not backed by history. There's plenty of women authors who have children and continue writing books, and have prolific writing careers. It can slow down or delay getting books out, sure, but so can plenty of other things in life besides children, which I've also seen happen (like multiple 1+ year long writer's blocks): https://slate.com/culture/2022/09/women-writers-motherhood-history.html https://slate.com/culture/2022/09/women-writers-motherhood-h...
apparent 2mo ago
> why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent Because there is a limited number of hours in the day? That doesn't mean that one cannot do both at the same time, at times. It doesn't even mean that having kids can't also make you a better founder in some ways. But I think most people recognize that the large time demands of being a founder take away more from one's ability to build than they contribute (in terms of extra motivation or perspective).
avgDev 2mo ago
I used to think, wow progressing is so easy, why doesn't everyone just read a technical book, documentation or take a course after work. I then had a child. The time is just gone. Having children is extremely time consuming. I have my own health issues, but now I am responsible for one more person. Morning routine takes 1 - 1.5 hours by the time my kid is dropped off at school. He hates getting up, so by the time I'm done I would love to crawl back into bed. After school it is dinner time, we try to cook and eat healthy. After dinner it is bed time. If I have time to watch a show or just talk to my wife for an hour without being interrupted, I'm happy. Having a child is great, but if you are committed and involved parent, there isn't much time or energy left to do anything but work and child.
- connoronthejob 2mo ago
  100%. I wonder how many of us have the exact same day.

jmbwell 2mo ago

Hear hear. Although being great at something and being a great parent do not have to be mutually exclusive. You can work yourself to death with or without kids. You can also have a successful career and a great relationship with your family. This whole premise that one must come at the expense of the other seems like rationalizing, or excuse-making, or maybe just another caustic result of capitalism. And even if the drive to compete is so real, why stop at competing for either/or? Why not compete at being a whole person according to your own values? To hell with anyone who says you can’t have the life you want. Win at being yourself.

AlexandrB 2mo ago

> Why is it a zero-sum game? Not to be flippant, but it's a zero-sum game because time is finite. I think you know this too since the following paragraphs describe you making this tradeoff yourself.

ron_woods 2mo ago
Yea we only get so many trips around the sun and it sometimes feels like modern society tries to push you to win or go home. I have one child in college and one who just started high school (today) and I can tell you the pressure they are experiencing to "succeed" is immense. I have no clue how I would have handled that when I was in school. Probably not well.

sailfast 2mo ago

The article is not talking about having "a great career" (which you can have while also having good balance and focusing on things). To me, the article is more a lament. There is only so much time in this life, and if you're organized (I read that to mean intentional in your execution and not wasting time) then you apply that time to your highest priority. Work / building things / personal hobbies / your partner / your family / your kids - these all compete. It's impossible to do everything you'd LOVE to do in your building and hobbies without burning the candle on both ends a bit with the other priorities. You can do it for short periods, but eventually it catches up and you'll either do it all bad or sacrifice something. Time is finite. Desire / drive are not. Solve for X. I feel what the author is saying every day, but I'm OK with it because there's no question in my mind that my kids and family are going to be the best use of my time and what I'm thinking about on my death bed. Do I still sleep too little and occasionally overwork to execute? Yes - but you have to pick your spots. You just can't do it ALL. (And mind you - that's for me as an extremely involved, work-from-home, caring for children MAN. This is an entirely different equation if you're a female and you don't have support structure. Nobody can have it all but I've probably got the best shot at having a TON of it - but there are still trade-offs)

TitaRusell 2mo ago
In my country you're not entitled to your husband/wife money so both parents need to make sure that they're financially independent.
- sailfast 2mo ago
  Do you mean in the case of divorce? Or in the case that a husband decides to not be a collaborating partner in raising a child? Obviously to be totally secure you need to make sure you have some money, but ideally it's a collaboration and not a competition even if the law doesn't provide an entitlement.
nichochar 2mo ago
i really like your framing, this encapsulates the problem very consisely: > Time is finite. Desire / drive are not. Solve for X

markus_zhang 2mo ago

Because energy is limited and TBH very few people are really fit for doing two jobs properly at the same time. Honestly, sometimes, or most of the times, a great career do demand more than 40 hours of work. You also need very good mental for both jobs, too.

wat10000 2mo ago

Sounds like you accept that the choice must be made, you've just accepted yours. And nothing wrong with that, of course.

cableshaft 2mo ago

> why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent. Why is it a zero-sum game? I had basically this exact conversation with a close family member, who sees having children as being forced to give up on her dreams of being a writer forever, which I just don't get (she's already written and released 4 novels which have made some decent money, just not enough to do it fulltime, and still has a day job in marketing that makes good money). For a little while it will likely mean a shift in focus, sure, but that doesn't mean you have to give up on something forever. I've mostly taken a break from designing games the past couple of years (unrelated to children, just not as motivated lately, there's so many great board games out there already I'm trying to just enjoy playing them for a while), but I haven't totally given up on being a game designer (plus I've already released several games in the past, that can't be taken away from me, even if basically no one is still playing those games nowadays). Plus children could also help enrich your life experience that lead to further inspiration for your creative efforts anyway, especially since it seems like the adult life experience society encourages nowadays seems to be sit in front of a computer all day for a day job, sit in front of a computer all evening for side hustle, get takeout, doomscroll/tv for a bit before going to sleep, repeat.

sailfast 2mo ago
Screaming hot take: sometimes folks use giving up on their dreams or ambitions as an excuse. (_sometimes_) But also it's just a different deal for mothers than fathers. Physically, mentally, it's just not comparable.
- yoyohello13 2mo ago
  It is always funny to read these threads where all the men are saying how you don't need to compromise when they have a stay at home wife keeping it all together. It's a totally different ballgame for the majority of women.
  - cableshaft 2mo ago
    I stated she had a day job making pretty good money. That's not a stay at home wife. Also didn't say they don't need to compromise, obviously having children requires compromises to be made in your life, there's no way you can live it entirely the same way as you used to anymore. I said they don't need to totally give up on it forever. Thinking something has to be all or nothing is the opposite of compromise. That's essentially a self-imposed ultimatum. It's also not backed by history. There's plenty of women authors who have children and continue writing books, and have prolific writing careers. It can slow down or delay getting books out, sure, but so can plenty of other things in life besides children, which I've also seen happen (like multiple 1+ year long writer's blocks): https://slate.com/culture/2022/09/women-writers-motherhood-history.html https://slate.com/culture/2022/09/women-writers-motherhood-h...

apparent 2mo ago

> why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent Because there is a limited number of hours in the day? That doesn't mean that one cannot do both at the same time, at times. It doesn't even mean that having kids can't also make you a better founder in some ways. But I think most people recognize that the large time demands of being a founder take away more from one's ability to build than they contribute (in terms of extra motivation or perspective).

avgDev 2mo ago

I used to think, wow progressing is so easy, why doesn't everyone just read a technical book, documentation or take a course after work. I then had a child. The time is just gone. Having children is extremely time consuming. I have my own health issues, but now I am responsible for one more person. Morning routine takes 1 - 1.5 hours by the time my kid is dropped off at school. He hates getting up, so by the time I'm done I would love to crawl back into bed. After school it is dinner time, we try to cook and eat healthy. After dinner it is bed time. If I have time to watch a show or just talk to my wife for an hour without being interrupted, I'm happy. Having a child is great, but if you are committed and involved parent, there isn't much time or energy left to do anything but work and child.

connoronthejob 2mo ago
100%. I wonder how many of us have the exact same day.