4 ms·

Framework seems pretty popular here in general, but nobody really seems to talk about how repairable enterprise laptops are. Some laptops have clips around the

by fwipsy 2mo ago

Framework seems pretty popular here in general, but nobody really seems to talk about how repairable enterprise laptops are. Some laptops have clips around the edge of the bottom panel to hold it in place, which frequently break. On my brother's T480s, those clips were made out of metal and held in with screws, meaning they were themselves replaceable. More recently I worked on a Dell Precision 7550 laptop, and if you crack it open everything is labeled just like a Framework. Also, before selling it I ran the onboard diagnostic. I was surprised when it told me to check the touchpad cable, because the touchpad was working fine. Took it apart again and yep, the touchpad cable was loose. Framework really caught everyone's attention with the fun DIY repair angle, but Dell/Lenovo/HP have been selling repairable laptops to IT departments for decades. In addition, they're a much more mature product -- been selling laptops for much longer at much higher volumes. Thinkpads are the prototypical example but I actually like Dells better. Many of them are Ubuntu-certified as well.

whateverboat 2mo ago
> Framework really caught everyone's attention with the fun DIY repair angle, but Dell/Lenovo/HP have been selling repairable laptops to IT departments for decades. Yeah, but does Dell allow you to change your laptop's mainboard for another mainboard with time? That is such a quantum leap. You do not have to adjust your self to a new keyboard just because you wanted a new processor.
- a2ff6eeb0 2mo ago
  Yeah, every time they change my laptop's mainboard, they definitely do it with a ton of time.
- pudgywalsh 2mo ago
  > but does Dell allow you to change your laptop's mainboard for another mainboard with time Business laptops are swapped out every few years. Reusable chassis? Literally no one asked for this, it makes no sense outside of a very, very small community of enthusiasts who think it's cool. Restricting yourself to no mechanical changes/improvements in perpetuity is not the flex you think it is. Keyboards wear out, the chassis gets dented/scratched. Thermal requirements change. This feature is for no one.
  - guerby 2mo ago
    Old frame.work mainboards make fantastic proxmox home servers: 3 watt idle 8 cores 64 GB RAM.
- bluedino 2mo ago
  Are there many laptop mainboards available and what is the price like?
  - craftkiller 2mo ago
    Yeah, I started with their first laptop (11th gen Intel DDR4 ram) and upgraded to the 7040 AMD board with DDR5 ram. Now there's even newer boards available with desirable features like LPCAMM. Framework has absolutely delivered on the "upgradable mainboard" promise. There's also 3rd party ARM and RISC-V mainboards, but I'd recommend the average user sticks to the x86_64 boards.
- artisinal 2mo ago
  A chassis is 10% of the cost of the laptop. Reusable chassis just to put new hardware in isn’t something the average consumer is interested in. Also, buying a new mainboard every few years and putting the old mainboard on a shelf is a lot less sustainable than buying a complete new laptop and selling your old laptop to someone.
  - randomblock1 2mo ago
    It's not just the chassis, it's also the screen, storage, RAM, ports, speakers, battery, and so on. And there is lots of demand for old mainboards, they sell pretty quick on Ebay. More sustainable to only buy and sell the part you need than the entire laptop, especially factoring in shipping costs. Plus the mainboards can be used like a mini PC.
  - aners_xyz 2mo ago
    You can take the old mainboard and slot it into a cheap case and run it like a slim pc.
  - adgjlsfhk1 2mo ago
    The place where the framework design really pays of is the ability to trivially swap ports. most laptops have the usbc on the motherboard so a warn out connector is a $800 repair. Even those that have separate daughterboards for IO typically will be a ~1hr+ take everything apart to fix. With a Framework, replacing a worn out connector is ~$15 and 15 seconds.
    - artisinal 2mo ago
      10 minutes at most on a MacBook to swap the ports. €20 for the part. How many times in the lifespan of the laptop does the average person do that? https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Late+2020+USB-C+Board+Replacement/142552 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Late+2020+U...
  - adolph 2mo ago
    I agree with your point on chassis/mainboard matching but wrt "putting the old mainboard on a shelf," Framework does have some cases for bare mainboards made by coolermaster and I think the 3d printing files are available.
- fwipsy 2mo ago
  Actually, they do. I'm not sure if it's officially supported, but the 7550 (10th gen) and 7560 (11th gen) have the same motherboard layout, and users have reported swapping successfully in other models. You also see reports of users putting the 7560's Ampere-series graphics cards in a 7550, which only ships with Turing.
  - Grombobulous 2mo ago
    This is more of a happy coincidence than a guaranteed upgrade path, though.
throwup238 2mo ago
I’m assuming many people also haven’t experienced their warranties and service networks. I remember decades ago when I was a teenager and anytime my Dell XPS stopped working (or I dropped it…) a tech would come in a van within two days and repair the laptop on my kitchen table while I watched and peppered him with questions. I love my framework because it’s the only laptop where I can design a custom plugin module to talk to my hardware and EE testbench, but DIY repairability pales in comparison to a service network where the tech arrives with a library of spare parts faster than you can get a replacement from Amazon.
QwenGlazer9000 2mo ago
From my experience they have been getting less repairable. Look at recent thinkpads. My headcannon is that the only reason the T14G7 is as repairable as it is, is due to the whole right to repair movement, including framework.
- cryo32 2mo ago
  The recent thinkpads are shit. They market high tech materials in the T14s machines but the bottom for a huge amount of the line is aluminium with plastic mounts glued to it. Those are fragile and break off. So really the whole magnesium alloy thing is performative. I preferred the older plastic coated Mg chassis ones. At least they were honest about the materials. Personally I avoid laptops now since the T430 line. Desktops are faster, cheaper, more reliable, easier to repair and replace bits and most of the time I don't need to carry a computer around.
  - chermi 2mo ago
    I thought the very recent ones were going toward repairability? Like this year
    - cryo32 2mo ago
      It's a complete overstatement. The USB-C ports are still soldered onto the motherboard and their parts supply chain is shit. I don't trust iFixit's quite frank "press handjob" because they're giving higher repairability rankings for that junk compared to Apple who have replaceable ports and a good supply chain available to the end user. Also they were all over selling battery kits for Pixel phones which are a complete pain to replace the batteries in compared to an iPhone. Not that Apple are the bastion of repairability, just their claims are less insane than both Lenovo's and iFixit's.
      - scrlk 2mo ago
        The 2026 ThinkPads have their USB-C ports on a separate modules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD_pz2t1FXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD_pz2t1FXA
thisislife2 2mo ago
You make a good point. And they do have the industrial knowledge / experience to create higher quality parts than Framework. But note that the value difference between Framework's offering and the others you cited is that repairability is today a lower priority for them (due to prioritising planned obsolescence), where as it is the core value around which the Framework business is built. Why aren't we seeing more modular laptops and smartphones? Sure, people cite technological advances and how electronics are manufactured today. But a major reason, in my opinion, is that it isn't seen as profitable as designing and selling devices that are not easy to repair or upgrade.
- lopis 2mo ago
  Each new Fairphone has pushed the boundaries of what a modular and repairable phone can be, but people must accept that it comes with a very significantly higher price (although in their case that's not only because it's modular, but also fairer wages, more ethical metals, etc). The average person is not willing to pay twice as much for a repairable phone.
  - artisinal 2mo ago
    And don’t forget about parts availability. I can get a new screen for a 15 year old iPhone on AliExpress. I doubt you will be able to buy Fairphone 6 parts in 15 years. A Fairphone is repairable right now but might not be in the future.
    - lopis 2mo ago
      That's true. On the other hand, it's trivially easy to salvage and transplant a screen from another Fairphone. There's still people selling FP2 parts in the forums.
  - thisislife2 2mo ago
    > The average person is not willing to pay twice as much for a repairable phone. It doesn't need to cost twice as much - https://www.hmd.com/en_int/hmd-pulse?sku=286947218 https://www.hmd.com/en_int/hmd-pulse?sku=286947218 . It however does require legislation to make manufacturers comply. A good example is the minimum 2/3 year warranty mandate in EU (depending on the country) - https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-rights/shopping-rights/guarantees-and-warranties https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-r...
free_bip 2mo ago
Most consumers are not an IT department, unfortunately.
sandreas 2mo ago
You are right... I personally own a T480s and it is a remarkable device, which can be repaired just like the framework (although most parts are no longer available new). I added a glass trackpad (which is way better than the original) and ordered a WQHD Display + Cable to upgrade from FullHD to WQHD (2560x1440?). Batteries can be replaced, RAM can be upgraded (in a way, part of it is soldered) and everything has a unique part number that can be easily researched. However, newer Lenovo Devices (like the Lenovo ThinkPad X9-15 Aura Edition which I would love to buy) are not that repairable any more. Sometimes I think it is for a reason, sometimes I think it may just be no longer reasonable. Even Framework claimed that their Desktop Ryzen 395+ RAM timings were to tight to allow using LPCAMM2 and if you'd like to get the last bit of performance out of a machine, short traces and soldered connections may be the only remaining option, even for SSDs. Additionally, OLEDs didn't make it into Frameworks notebooks yet and that might be a similar reason - harder repairability. Whatever the reason is, I like Frameworks philosophy of LISTENING to customers and maybe their success has changed the way bigger vendors produce there stuff (if only a little bit). I'm not expecting Apple to do this, but at least HP and Dell seem to have slightly changed their path of vendor locking to be more repairable again. I would bet that this story of a failed BIOS update reaches the support anytime soon and they provide a repair guide or maybe a replaceable BIOS chip. Stories like this are somehow sad but at least they help to improve. BTW: Dell has great repairable business notebooks (I recently switched to a cheap Latitude 5420 - the T480s was getting to slow for some tasks), but there are caveats I immediately noticed and most people don't think of: - Keyboard Backlight is way too bright in the lowest setting - Keyboard layout is a bit off - It cannot be opened with one hand - Display Brightness steps are to low (using the ALT key could increase / decrease the step size, like in MacBooks) - Display Brightness cannot be set to "off" / black screen (this only works on macbooks) - The Dell 5520 Trackpad is horrible - Nobody except Apple supports AudioJack-Headphones remotes for controlling audio playback and volume (with USB-C to audiojack Adapters this works out of the box on Linux)
- quantum5 2mo ago
  > I would bet that this story of a failed BIOS update reaches the support anytime soon and they provide a repair guide or maybe a replaceable BIOS chip. Stories like this are somehow sad but at least they help to improve. Original author here. I like your optimism, but I've linked multiple threads on their forums with people doing the same problem going back over a year. I also pieced together most of the stuff from people doing external flashing on the forums. Still, no official guides, no changes as far as I can tell. This post is the most detail repair guide available right now. If something happens after this, it would be because this post got to the top of HN and they have to respond to save face.
sounds 2mo ago
In today's blog post, we are all studying the enshittification of the BIOS. In general, I agree with you that the bigger laptop makers can repair laptops and do an amazing job. What we're all here for though is 2026. No big company is coming to fix your machines, even big companies are waiting 30+ days for parts availability from the big company bros they bought from. If you're a consumer, forget about it. "Many of them are Ubuntu-certified as well." I'm calling BS here. Dell and HP hide their limited, paltry Linux offerings in the back of their website. Define your use of "many." Now we're down to the BIOS. Today's blog post encountered a failed BIOS update, and takes Framework to task for it. Some of the support team at Framework are really cool and would probably have detected this customer is https://xkcd.com/806/ https://xkcd.com/806/ This time he got the strict script follower for customer support. I hope it blows up on Framework.
- jakzurr 2mo ago
  omg, thanks so much!
- fwipsy 2mo ago
  https://ubuntu.com/certified https://ubuntu.com/certified This is how I define "many." Dell in particular seems to certify lots of laptops for Ubuntu support, even if they don't sell them with Ubuntu. It's not just their enterprise offerings, either; I see lots of consumer models.
cryo32 2mo ago
There's repairable and there's repairable and it's not quite as obvious as it seems. The big issue we see on our Dell and Lenovo units is broken USB-C ports and the only repair method possible there is replace the motherboard. No ports on daughterboards like the MacBooks. And you can't just buy the parts from most vendors. Dell is utterly impossible and with Lenovo half the time they don't actually have any of the parts available or somehow manage to fuck up their shipping so they never turn up. Had to charge back Lenovo/Digital River twice. Zero support at all and impossible to contact anyone. And the whole PART NOT USER SERVICEABLE in the HMMs. If you want Dell/Lenovo repairs just buy two of whatever. At the same time iFixit are gushing all over Lenovo who are hell and pissing on Apple. The Apple who don't have this problem and I seem to have no problem getting parts for from their official parts store, the parts actually turn up and work.
qmr 2mo ago
Which thinkpad series? Newer ones seem not so great?
- Mashimo 2mo ago
  I think the latest ThinkPad t14 did get a 10/10 from ifixit repairability score.
guerby 2mo ago
Dell latitude 7480. usb-c port is now dead, it is soldered. Not going to happen to my https://frame.work https://frame.work laptop, 10 eur part, no soldering, not even a screwdriver, and good as new
- pudgywalsh 2mo ago
  You mean the dongles? The actual USB-C port on a Framework is soldered to the motherboard. If you destroy the port electrically it is the same thing. If you are inserting/removing cables like a gorilla, then buy a 3" dongle (aka magic Framework module) for your other laptop.
  - craftkiller 2mo ago
    > If you are inserting/removing cables like a gorilla You've never moved your laptop without realizing it is still plugged in? I've done that a couple of times. My framework gives me peace of mind because I know the only port that will be damaged from that is the one on the $10 card because the card is firmly attached to the laptop body. Your suggestion of a 3" dongle doesn't have that benefit so yanking a plugged-in laptop could still cause a loose or broken port on your motherboard.
    - pudgywalsh 2mo ago
      > You've never moved your laptop without realizing it is still plugged in? No. This damage usually happens by tripping over the cord, which results in the laptop falling on the floor, so a USB-C port is the least of your worries. There's a reason Apple went back to MagSafe.
      - craftkiller 2mo ago
        But in that situation, you know the damage _wont_ be to the USB ports on the motherboard. The motherboard is screwed to the case, and the expansion cards are locked to the case, so they won't move relative to each other. You expansion card might get damaged by the initial tripping over the cord, and some other parts might get damaged from the fall, but you can trivially buy first-party replacement parts for anything you broke. MagSafe would be nice, but the expansion cards are doing their job to protect the motherboard.
petterroea 2mo ago
Most people I know don't own enterprise computers. They are pretty pricy and visually tame - not really made for consumers. To me, buying a framework is more about ideology than them being the best at everything. You can't expect them to be the best when starting out either. I am buying a future. I don't think any framework owner seriously thinks they are buying the most repairable laptop in the world or the most cost effective laptop in the world.
- DANmode 2mo ago
  > They are pretty pricy Stop buying new. Great retired business machines on eBay daily.
  - petterroea 2mo ago
    I don't disagree, but consider that second hand machines are of unknown state, and often have no (or limited) warranty. Just like with a second hand car, there is a higher maintenance burden. How does an average joe know if a machine on ebay is great? If the answer is "they have to learn how to spot a good one", it is already an increased burden. People like you and I are happy with this, but the average person could not care less about computers and simply need something to send emails, do taxes, and browse the internet. They don't want that extra burden, they want something that is guaranteed to "just work". Proper second hand refurbishment pipelines that are well known and trusted is something we should aim for and want, but I believe the current state is that people want new and want cheap new. What is wrong with wanting cheap + new, and wanting laptop producers to cater to this?
    - DANmode 2mo ago
      99.9% to 100% feedback over 10,000 transactions has done the trick for me. EZ. People would buy refurbs a lot more if they were more noticeable/marketed. People “want” whatever electronics are on the shelf in front of them when it’s time to buy, if we’re talking general public now (I wasn’t trying to). The main firms refurbing are also selling new, and so aren’t in a rush to eat their own lunch.
doublepg23 2mo ago
> nobody really seems to talk about how repairable enterprise laptops are Thinkpads have been a meme since the early 2010s. It's funny to bring up the T480/s as positive example because I remember people complaining about anything past ~xx20 series. > caught everyone's attention with the fun DIY repair angle Framework is a reaction to the cult following a lot of the business laptops had. When people are spending $$ to retrofit modern mainboards to vintage Thinkpad chassis you know there's enthusiast money to be made there.
- scrlk 2mo ago
  It was Lenovo ditching the classic ThinkPad 7 row keyboard with the Ivy Bridge models c. 2012 that really pissed people off
  - doublepg23 2mo ago
    Indeed, multiple civil wars have been fought since the Lenovo acquisition.
jvanderbot 2mo ago
I've been repairing my laptops for a long time. I loved my dell laptops for field work. Swappable batteries especially! Framework, for me, was just the natural extension of that, geared towards multi-use that included reconfigurability, which dell never had, and more compact overall. On balance, I think the framework has been a cool talking point, but yes, a 2015 dell would have supported all the improvements I made over time to my framework, provided it had all the ports I needed originally. It'd have definitely been bulkier though!
moffkalast 2mo ago
I think the context into which Framework introduced repairable laptops is mainly the Mac dev crowd who've only ever experienced Apple's glued together brick with serial number locked parts that gets replaced whole or not at all.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 2mo ago
I mean, I needed to replace my thinkpad x1 carbon gen 3 keyboard and I started looking at videos and... You can do it, but it's absolutely bonkers what you need to do.

by fwipsy 2mo ago

whateverboat 2mo ago

> Framework really caught everyone's attention with the fun DIY repair angle, but Dell/Lenovo/HP have been selling repairable laptops to IT departments for decades. Yeah, but does Dell allow you to change your laptop's mainboard for another mainboard with time? That is such a quantum leap. You do not have to adjust your self to a new keyboard just because you wanted a new processor.

a2ff6eeb0 2mo ago
Yeah, every time they change my laptop's mainboard, they definitely do it with a ton of time.
pudgywalsh 2mo ago
> but does Dell allow you to change your laptop's mainboard for another mainboard with time Business laptops are swapped out every few years. Reusable chassis? Literally no one asked for this, it makes no sense outside of a very, very small community of enthusiasts who think it's cool. Restricting yourself to no mechanical changes/improvements in perpetuity is not the flex you think it is. Keyboards wear out, the chassis gets dented/scratched. Thermal requirements change. This feature is for no one.
- guerby 2mo ago
  Old frame.work mainboards make fantastic proxmox home servers: 3 watt idle 8 cores 64 GB RAM.
bluedino 2mo ago
Are there many laptop mainboards available and what is the price like?
- craftkiller 2mo ago
  Yeah, I started with their first laptop (11th gen Intel DDR4 ram) and upgraded to the 7040 AMD board with DDR5 ram. Now there's even newer boards available with desirable features like LPCAMM. Framework has absolutely delivered on the "upgradable mainboard" promise. There's also 3rd party ARM and RISC-V mainboards, but I'd recommend the average user sticks to the x86_64 boards.
artisinal 2mo ago
A chassis is 10% of the cost of the laptop. Reusable chassis just to put new hardware in isn’t something the average consumer is interested in. Also, buying a new mainboard every few years and putting the old mainboard on a shelf is a lot less sustainable than buying a complete new laptop and selling your old laptop to someone.
- randomblock1 2mo ago
  It's not just the chassis, it's also the screen, storage, RAM, ports, speakers, battery, and so on. And there is lots of demand for old mainboards, they sell pretty quick on Ebay. More sustainable to only buy and sell the part you need than the entire laptop, especially factoring in shipping costs. Plus the mainboards can be used like a mini PC.
- aners_xyz 2mo ago
  You can take the old mainboard and slot it into a cheap case and run it like a slim pc.
- adgjlsfhk1 2mo ago
  The place where the framework design really pays of is the ability to trivially swap ports. most laptops have the usbc on the motherboard so a warn out connector is a $800 repair. Even those that have separate daughterboards for IO typically will be a ~1hr+ take everything apart to fix. With a Framework, replacing a worn out connector is ~$15 and 15 seconds.
  - artisinal 2mo ago
    10 minutes at most on a MacBook to swap the ports. €20 for the part. How many times in the lifespan of the laptop does the average person do that? https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Late+2020+USB-C+Board+Replacement/142552 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Late+2020+U...
- adolph 2mo ago
  I agree with your point on chassis/mainboard matching but wrt "putting the old mainboard on a shelf," Framework does have some cases for bare mainboards made by coolermaster and I think the 3d printing files are available.
fwipsy 2mo ago
Actually, they do. I'm not sure if it's officially supported, but the 7550 (10th gen) and 7560 (11th gen) have the same motherboard layout, and users have reported swapping successfully in other models. You also see reports of users putting the 7560's Ampere-series graphics cards in a 7550, which only ships with Turing.
- Grombobulous 2mo ago
  This is more of a happy coincidence than a guaranteed upgrade path, though.

throwup238 2mo ago

I’m assuming many people also haven’t experienced their warranties and service networks. I remember decades ago when I was a teenager and anytime my Dell XPS stopped working (or I dropped it…) a tech would come in a van within two days and repair the laptop on my kitchen table while I watched and peppered him with questions. I love my framework because it’s the only laptop where I can design a custom plugin module to talk to my hardware and EE testbench, but DIY repairability pales in comparison to a service network where the tech arrives with a library of spare parts faster than you can get a replacement from Amazon.

QwenGlazer9000 2mo ago

From my experience they have been getting less repairable. Look at recent thinkpads. My headcannon is that the only reason the T14G7 is as repairable as it is, is due to the whole right to repair movement, including framework.

cryo32 2mo ago
The recent thinkpads are shit. They market high tech materials in the T14s machines but the bottom for a huge amount of the line is aluminium with plastic mounts glued to it. Those are fragile and break off. So really the whole magnesium alloy thing is performative. I preferred the older plastic coated Mg chassis ones. At least they were honest about the materials. Personally I avoid laptops now since the T430 line. Desktops are faster, cheaper, more reliable, easier to repair and replace bits and most of the time I don't need to carry a computer around.
- chermi 2mo ago
  I thought the very recent ones were going toward repairability? Like this year
  - cryo32 2mo ago
    It's a complete overstatement. The USB-C ports are still soldered onto the motherboard and their parts supply chain is shit. I don't trust iFixit's quite frank "press handjob" because they're giving higher repairability rankings for that junk compared to Apple who have replaceable ports and a good supply chain available to the end user. Also they were all over selling battery kits for Pixel phones which are a complete pain to replace the batteries in compared to an iPhone. Not that Apple are the bastion of repairability, just their claims are less insane than both Lenovo's and iFixit's.
    - scrlk 2mo ago
      The 2026 ThinkPads have their USB-C ports on a separate modules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD_pz2t1FXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD_pz2t1FXA

thisislife2 2mo ago

You make a good point. And they do have the industrial knowledge / experience to create higher quality parts than Framework. But note that the value difference between Framework's offering and the others you cited is that repairability is today a lower priority for them (due to prioritising planned obsolescence), where as it is the core value around which the Framework business is built. Why aren't we seeing more modular laptops and smartphones? Sure, people cite technological advances and how electronics are manufactured today. But a major reason, in my opinion, is that it isn't seen as profitable as designing and selling devices that are not easy to repair or upgrade.

lopis 2mo ago
Each new Fairphone has pushed the boundaries of what a modular and repairable phone can be, but people must accept that it comes with a very significantly higher price (although in their case that's not only because it's modular, but also fairer wages, more ethical metals, etc). The average person is not willing to pay twice as much for a repairable phone.
- artisinal 2mo ago
  And don’t forget about parts availability. I can get a new screen for a 15 year old iPhone on AliExpress. I doubt you will be able to buy Fairphone 6 parts in 15 years. A Fairphone is repairable right now but might not be in the future.
  - lopis 2mo ago
    That's true. On the other hand, it's trivially easy to salvage and transplant a screen from another Fairphone. There's still people selling FP2 parts in the forums.
- thisislife2 2mo ago
  > The average person is not willing to pay twice as much for a repairable phone. It doesn't need to cost twice as much - https://www.hmd.com/en_int/hmd-pulse?sku=286947218 https://www.hmd.com/en_int/hmd-pulse?sku=286947218 . It however does require legislation to make manufacturers comply. A good example is the minimum 2/3 year warranty mandate in EU (depending on the country) - https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-rights/shopping-rights/guarantees-and-warranties https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-r...

free_bip 2mo ago

Most consumers are not an IT department, unfortunately.

sandreas 2mo ago

You are right... I personally own a T480s and it is a remarkable device, which can be repaired just like the framework (although most parts are no longer available new). I added a glass trackpad (which is way better than the original) and ordered a WQHD Display + Cable to upgrade from FullHD to WQHD (2560x1440?). Batteries can be replaced, RAM can be upgraded (in a way, part of it is soldered) and everything has a unique part number that can be easily researched. However, newer Lenovo Devices (like the Lenovo ThinkPad X9-15 Aura Edition which I would love to buy) are not that repairable any more. Sometimes I think it is for a reason, sometimes I think it may just be no longer reasonable. Even Framework claimed that their Desktop Ryzen 395+ RAM timings were to tight to allow using LPCAMM2 and if you'd like to get the last bit of performance out of a machine, short traces and soldered connections may be the only remaining option, even for SSDs. Additionally, OLEDs didn't make it into Frameworks notebooks yet and that might be a similar reason - harder repairability. Whatever the reason is, I like Frameworks philosophy of LISTENING to customers and maybe their success has changed the way bigger vendors produce there stuff (if only a little bit). I'm not expecting Apple to do this, but at least HP and Dell seem to have slightly changed their path of vendor locking to be more repairable again. I would bet that this story of a failed BIOS update reaches the support anytime soon and they provide a repair guide or maybe a replaceable BIOS chip. Stories like this are somehow sad but at least they help to improve. BTW: Dell has great repairable business notebooks (I recently switched to a cheap Latitude 5420 - the T480s was getting to slow for some tasks), but there are caveats I immediately noticed and most people don't think of: - Keyboard Backlight is way too bright in the lowest setting - Keyboard layout is a bit off - It cannot be opened with one hand - Display Brightness steps are to low (using the ALT key could increase / decrease the step size, like in MacBooks) - Display Brightness cannot be set to "off" / black screen (this only works on macbooks) - The Dell 5520 Trackpad is horrible - Nobody except Apple supports AudioJack-Headphones remotes for controlling audio playback and volume (with USB-C to audiojack Adapters this works out of the box on Linux)

quantum5 2mo ago
> I would bet that this story of a failed BIOS update reaches the support anytime soon and they provide a repair guide or maybe a replaceable BIOS chip. Stories like this are somehow sad but at least they help to improve. Original author here. I like your optimism, but I've linked multiple threads on their forums with people doing the same problem going back over a year. I also pieced together most of the stuff from people doing external flashing on the forums. Still, no official guides, no changes as far as I can tell. This post is the most detail repair guide available right now. If something happens after this, it would be because this post got to the top of HN and they have to respond to save face.

sounds 2mo ago

In today's blog post, we are all studying the enshittification of the BIOS. In general, I agree with you that the bigger laptop makers can repair laptops and do an amazing job. What we're all here for though is 2026. No big company is coming to fix your machines, even big companies are waiting 30+ days for parts availability from the big company bros they bought from. If you're a consumer, forget about it. "Many of them are Ubuntu-certified as well." I'm calling BS here. Dell and HP hide their limited, paltry Linux offerings in the back of their website. Define your use of "many." Now we're down to the BIOS. Today's blog post encountered a failed BIOS update, and takes Framework to task for it. Some of the support team at Framework are really cool and would probably have detected this customer is https://xkcd.com/806/ https://xkcd.com/806/ This time he got the strict script follower for customer support. I hope it blows up on Framework.

jakzurr 2mo ago
omg, thanks so much!
fwipsy 2mo ago
https://ubuntu.com/certified https://ubuntu.com/certified This is how I define "many." Dell in particular seems to certify lots of laptops for Ubuntu support, even if they don't sell them with Ubuntu. It's not just their enterprise offerings, either; I see lots of consumer models.

cryo32 2mo ago

There's repairable and there's repairable and it's not quite as obvious as it seems. The big issue we see on our Dell and Lenovo units is broken USB-C ports and the only repair method possible there is replace the motherboard. No ports on daughterboards like the MacBooks. And you can't just buy the parts from most vendors. Dell is utterly impossible and with Lenovo half the time they don't actually have any of the parts available or somehow manage to fuck up their shipping so they never turn up. Had to charge back Lenovo/Digital River twice. Zero support at all and impossible to contact anyone. And the whole PART NOT USER SERVICEABLE in the HMMs. If you want Dell/Lenovo repairs just buy two of whatever. At the same time iFixit are gushing all over Lenovo who are hell and pissing on Apple. The Apple who don't have this problem and I seem to have no problem getting parts for from their official parts store, the parts actually turn up and work.

qmr 2mo ago

Which thinkpad series? Newer ones seem not so great?

Mashimo 2mo ago
I think the latest ThinkPad t14 did get a 10/10 from ifixit repairability score.

guerby 2mo ago

Dell latitude 7480. usb-c port is now dead, it is soldered. Not going to happen to my https://frame.work https://frame.work laptop, 10 eur part, no soldering, not even a screwdriver, and good as new

pudgywalsh 2mo ago
You mean the dongles? The actual USB-C port on a Framework is soldered to the motherboard. If you destroy the port electrically it is the same thing. If you are inserting/removing cables like a gorilla, then buy a 3" dongle (aka magic Framework module) for your other laptop.
- craftkiller 2mo ago
  > If you are inserting/removing cables like a gorilla You've never moved your laptop without realizing it is still plugged in? I've done that a couple of times. My framework gives me peace of mind because I know the only port that will be damaged from that is the one on the $10 card because the card is firmly attached to the laptop body. Your suggestion of a 3" dongle doesn't have that benefit so yanking a plugged-in laptop could still cause a loose or broken port on your motherboard.
  - pudgywalsh 2mo ago
    > You've never moved your laptop without realizing it is still plugged in? No. This damage usually happens by tripping over the cord, which results in the laptop falling on the floor, so a USB-C port is the least of your worries. There's a reason Apple went back to MagSafe.
    - craftkiller 2mo ago
      But in that situation, you know the damage _wont_ be to the USB ports on the motherboard. The motherboard is screwed to the case, and the expansion cards are locked to the case, so they won't move relative to each other. You expansion card might get damaged by the initial tripping over the cord, and some other parts might get damaged from the fall, but you can trivially buy first-party replacement parts for anything you broke. MagSafe would be nice, but the expansion cards are doing their job to protect the motherboard.

petterroea 2mo ago

Most people I know don't own enterprise computers. They are pretty pricy and visually tame - not really made for consumers. To me, buying a framework is more about ideology than them being the best at everything. You can't expect them to be the best when starting out either. I am buying a future. I don't think any framework owner seriously thinks they are buying the most repairable laptop in the world or the most cost effective laptop in the world.

DANmode 2mo ago
> They are pretty pricy Stop buying new. Great retired business machines on eBay daily.
- petterroea 2mo ago
  I don't disagree, but consider that second hand machines are of unknown state, and often have no (or limited) warranty. Just like with a second hand car, there is a higher maintenance burden. How does an average joe know if a machine on ebay is great? If the answer is "they have to learn how to spot a good one", it is already an increased burden. People like you and I are happy with this, but the average person could not care less about computers and simply need something to send emails, do taxes, and browse the internet. They don't want that extra burden, they want something that is guaranteed to "just work". Proper second hand refurbishment pipelines that are well known and trusted is something we should aim for and want, but I believe the current state is that people want new and want cheap new. What is wrong with wanting cheap + new, and wanting laptop producers to cater to this?
  - DANmode 2mo ago
    99.9% to 100% feedback over 10,000 transactions has done the trick for me. EZ. People would buy refurbs a lot more if they were more noticeable/marketed. People “want” whatever electronics are on the shelf in front of them when it’s time to buy, if we’re talking general public now (I wasn’t trying to). The main firms refurbing are also selling new, and so aren’t in a rush to eat their own lunch.

doublepg23 2mo ago

> nobody really seems to talk about how repairable enterprise laptops are Thinkpads have been a meme since the early 2010s. It's funny to bring up the T480/s as positive example because I remember people complaining about anything past ~xx20 series. > caught everyone's attention with the fun DIY repair angle Framework is a reaction to the cult following a lot of the business laptops had. When people are spending $$ to retrofit modern mainboards to vintage Thinkpad chassis you know there's enthusiast money to be made there.

scrlk 2mo ago
It was Lenovo ditching the classic ThinkPad 7 row keyboard with the Ivy Bridge models c. 2012 that really pissed people off
- doublepg23 2mo ago
  Indeed, multiple civil wars have been fought since the Lenovo acquisition.

jvanderbot 2mo ago

I've been repairing my laptops for a long time. I loved my dell laptops for field work. Swappable batteries especially! Framework, for me, was just the natural extension of that, geared towards multi-use that included reconfigurability, which dell never had, and more compact overall. On balance, I think the framework has been a cool talking point, but yes, a 2015 dell would have supported all the improvements I made over time to my framework, provided it had all the ports I needed originally. It'd have definitely been bulkier though!

moffkalast 2mo ago

I think the context into which Framework introduced repairable laptops is mainly the Mac dev crowd who've only ever experienced Apple's glued together brick with serial number locked parts that gets replaced whole or not at all.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2mo ago

I mean, I needed to replace my thinkpad x1 carbon gen 3 keyboard and I started looking at videos and... You can do it, but it's absolutely bonkers what you need to do.