4 ms·

You can defend yourself without genocide. You can imprison people without raping them. It turns out there's more options between give up and scorched earth.

giov4 2mo ago
on point, I agree, I think that's also what mainly worries people and tend them to realize how aggressive and violent the attitude is.
victorbjorklund 2mo ago
No one is complaining when Ukrainians are bombing Moscow
boxed 2mo ago
I mean, you presuppose a genocide. A lie repeated is still a lie though. All wars are not genocides. Just because we now can see the suffering doesn't make it a genocide (and especially not because of all the fake suffering, like the people "freezing to death" in 20 degree celsius, or that pulitzer prize winning photo of a child with an unrelated disease, etc).
- forestrywat 2mo ago
  It sure does presuppose that. Because that's not really a factual debate at this point. See my comment higher. I agree not all wars are genocides. This one is. And people can get hypothermia any time their body temp is below 35C. Which, yes, can happen at 20C. (Which you'll note is in fact lower than 35C.)
  - boxed 2mo ago
    > It sure does presuppose that. Because that's not really a factual debate at this point. See my comment higher. But it is. The deaths are surprisingly low for urban warfare even if we accept Hamas numbers. A lot of deaths that are doctors or journalists turns out later to have also been Islamic Jihad or Hamas fighters. The IDF routinely avoided civilians, while Hamas explicitly embedded itself. Israel even vaccinated Gazan children during the war. You can claim that SOME people from Israel wants a genocide and were trying to do it sure, just like the Bondi Beach attacker was genocidal. But to claim the war as a whole was genocide is absurd. It just falls flat on the numbers alone.
jameshilliard 2mo ago
> You can defend yourself without genocide. People also need to stop conflating a war with genocide.
- dragonwriter 2mo ago
  No one is comflating war with genocide, but people need to stop pretending that the existence of a war contradicts the existence of a genocide.
  - jameshilliard 2mo ago
    > No one is comflating war with genocide Anyone claiming Israel is committing genocide is quite obviously conflating the two.
    - forestrywat 2mo ago
      Not at all obviously. Israel is committing a genocide. This is not really a matter of discussion... you think several parts of the UN, Amnesty International, Doctors Without Borders, the international association of genocide scholars, the international federation for human rights, Human Rights Watch, the Hague Group, the governments of Ghana, Malaysia, Mexico, China, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Spain, Ireland, (and dozens of others), the African Union, the Jewish voice for peace, and dozens of small orgs just all... got it wrong? Why should I believe a random HN comment warrior over literally hundreds of organizations and governments whose jobs include identifying genocide when it happens? What makes your case so compelling it stands up against all that and what my own eyes see? No. It's a genocide.
      - throw693278 2mo ago
        Nations and organizations with known old pre-existing political/religious animosity towards Israel do not count as valid opinions on the matter.
        2mo ago

giov4 2mo ago

on point, I agree, I think that's also what mainly worries people and tend them to realize how aggressive and violent the attitude is.

victorbjorklund 2mo ago

No one is complaining when Ukrainians are bombing Moscow

boxed 2mo ago

I mean, you presuppose a genocide. A lie repeated is still a lie though. All wars are not genocides. Just because we now can see the suffering doesn't make it a genocide (and especially not because of all the fake suffering, like the people "freezing to death" in 20 degree celsius, or that pulitzer prize winning photo of a child with an unrelated disease, etc).

forestrywat 2mo ago
It sure does presuppose that. Because that's not really a factual debate at this point. See my comment higher. I agree not all wars are genocides. This one is. And people can get hypothermia any time their body temp is below 35C. Which, yes, can happen at 20C. (Which you'll note is in fact lower than 35C.)
- boxed 2mo ago
  > It sure does presuppose that. Because that's not really a factual debate at this point. See my comment higher. But it is. The deaths are surprisingly low for urban warfare even if we accept Hamas numbers. A lot of deaths that are doctors or journalists turns out later to have also been Islamic Jihad or Hamas fighters. The IDF routinely avoided civilians, while Hamas explicitly embedded itself. Israel even vaccinated Gazan children during the war. You can claim that SOME people from Israel wants a genocide and were trying to do it sure, just like the Bondi Beach attacker was genocidal. But to claim the war as a whole was genocide is absurd. It just falls flat on the numbers alone.

jameshilliard 2mo ago

> You can defend yourself without genocide. People also need to stop conflating a war with genocide.

dragonwriter 2mo ago
No one is comflating war with genocide, but people need to stop pretending that the existence of a war contradicts the existence of a genocide.
- jameshilliard 2mo ago
  > No one is comflating war with genocide Anyone claiming Israel is committing genocide is quite obviously conflating the two.
  - forestrywat 2mo ago
    Not at all obviously. Israel is committing a genocide. This is not really a matter of discussion... you think several parts of the UN, Amnesty International, Doctors Without Borders, the international association of genocide scholars, the international federation for human rights, Human Rights Watch, the Hague Group, the governments of Ghana, Malaysia, Mexico, China, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Spain, Ireland, (and dozens of others), the African Union, the Jewish voice for peace, and dozens of small orgs just all... got it wrong? Why should I believe a random HN comment warrior over literally hundreds of organizations and governments whose jobs include identifying genocide when it happens? What makes your case so compelling it stands up against all that and what my own eyes see? No. It's a genocide.
    - throw693278 2mo ago
      Nations and organizations with known old pre-existing political/religious animosity towards Israel do not count as valid opinions on the matter.
      - 2mo ago