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> someone has to approve or deny healthcare. Every universal system does it too, but by government policy instead of corporate decision That's another lie you'

> someone has to approve or deny healthcare. Every universal system does it too, but by government policy instead of corporate decision That's another lie you've been told and believed. With Universal Healthcare the government just provides the funding. Medical decisions are made by Doctors.

nradov 2mo ago
Nonsense. In every nationalized healthcare system there is care rationing performed by government bureaucrats. Regardless of a doctor's opinion on medical necessity, some treatments involve long waiting lists or third-party reviews or are simply unavailable. That might be preferable to our current system in certain ways but let's not pretend that there are no trade-offs. For example, let's say you're in England and your doctor decides you need Enhertu or proton beam therapy. That decision is meaningless because the NHS won't pay for them.
- onraglanroad 2mo ago
  The lie you're believing is that the decision is made by government bureaucrats. See my other reply in this thread.
consensus1 2mo ago
I would love to know how universal healthcare works in your head
- onraglanroad 2mo ago
  It's not how it works in my head: it's the reality of how it works here. To quote from my other reply: They don't fund everything. They don't fund anything in particular. They provide the funding and the medical professionals decide how best to allocate that funding for the best results.
matteoraso 2mo ago
>With Universal Healthcare the government just provides the funding. And what makes you think that they fund everything? I support universal healthcare as well (I'm literally Canadian), but I can accept that there are tradeoffs associated with it.
- onraglanroad 2mo ago
  They don't fund everything. They don't fund anything in particular. They provide the funding and the medical professionals decide how best to allocate that funding for the best results. It's a bit different in Canada to my situation in Scotland since there is also the choice of private healthcare here if you want to pay more to skip queues etc.
  - matteoraso 2mo ago
    Huh? NICE sets a cost-effectiveness threshold of about £20,000-30,000 per QALY gained from a drug[0]. There was even a controversy where a drug for pancreatic cancer was denied funding for this very reason[1]. [0]https://web.archive.org/web/20110925050527/http://www.nice.org.uk/niceMedia/pdf/GuidelinesManualChapter8.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20110925050527/http://www.nice.o... [1]https://web.archive.org/web/20151225115559/http://www.pancreaticcancer.org.uk/latest-news/2015/september/last-hope-dashed-for-access-to-life-extending-pancreatic-cancer-drug-on-the-nhs-in-england/#sthash.PpHk2Lur.dpuf https://web.archive.org/web/20151225115559/http://www.pancre...
    - onraglanroad 2mo ago
      NICE is an independent body consisting mainly of medical professionals. It's not made up of MPs. That's exactly my point. How on earth are you still missing this?
      - matteoraso 2mo ago
        It's also overseen by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Social Care. Also, how on Earth do you think insurance companies don't consult doctors on insurance denials?

nradov 2mo ago

Nonsense. In every nationalized healthcare system there is care rationing performed by government bureaucrats. Regardless of a doctor's opinion on medical necessity, some treatments involve long waiting lists or third-party reviews or are simply unavailable. That might be preferable to our current system in certain ways but let's not pretend that there are no trade-offs. For example, let's say you're in England and your doctor decides you need Enhertu or proton beam therapy. That decision is meaningless because the NHS won't pay for them.

onraglanroad 2mo ago
The lie you're believing is that the decision is made by government bureaucrats. See my other reply in this thread.

consensus1 2mo ago

I would love to know how universal healthcare works in your head

onraglanroad 2mo ago
It's not how it works in my head: it's the reality of how it works here. To quote from my other reply: They don't fund everything. They don't fund anything in particular. They provide the funding and the medical professionals decide how best to allocate that funding for the best results.

matteoraso 2mo ago

>With Universal Healthcare the government just provides the funding. And what makes you think that they fund everything? I support universal healthcare as well (I'm literally Canadian), but I can accept that there are tradeoffs associated with it.

onraglanroad 2mo ago
They don't fund everything. They don't fund anything in particular. They provide the funding and the medical professionals decide how best to allocate that funding for the best results. It's a bit different in Canada to my situation in Scotland since there is also the choice of private healthcare here if you want to pay more to skip queues etc.
- matteoraso 2mo ago
  Huh? NICE sets a cost-effectiveness threshold of about £20,000-30,000 per QALY gained from a drug[0]. There was even a controversy where a drug for pancreatic cancer was denied funding for this very reason[1]. [0]https://web.archive.org/web/20110925050527/http://www.nice.org.uk/niceMedia/pdf/GuidelinesManualChapter8.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20110925050527/http://www.nice.o... [1]https://web.archive.org/web/20151225115559/http://www.pancreaticcancer.org.uk/latest-news/2015/september/last-hope-dashed-for-access-to-life-extending-pancreatic-cancer-drug-on-the-nhs-in-england/#sthash.PpHk2Lur.dpuf https://web.archive.org/web/20151225115559/http://www.pancre...
  - onraglanroad 2mo ago
    NICE is an independent body consisting mainly of medical professionals. It's not made up of MPs. That's exactly my point. How on earth are you still missing this?
    - matteoraso 2mo ago
      It's also overseen by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Social Care. Also, how on Earth do you think insurance companies don't consult doctors on insurance denials?