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This is just how the US legal system works. When a judge has made a terrible decision for dumb reasons, you appeal it, you don’t sue the judge. There’d be a sim

This is just how the US legal system works. When a judge has made a terrible decision for dumb reasons, you appeal it, you don’t sue the judge. There’d be a similar result if you sued a judge for ruling against you at the instructions of their cult leader or something.

abeppu 2mo ago
But did the judge make the decision? I think there's a real question of whether this is a failure of due process rights. But I also think supreme Court Justices need to be awake for the court to actually hear arguments, so what do I know.
- zdragnar 2mo ago
  That is what the article and judgement was about- they can certainly use that argument to appeal the case, but not to hold the judge in the case personally liable.
- SpicyLemonZest 2mo ago
  There would be a real question if the judge in fact used AI. The plaintiff's complaint (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nvd.176224/gov.uscourts.nvd.176224.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nvd.176...) makes it pretty clear that he's just nuts and had no real reason to think she did. But of course a court can't dismiss someone's complaint on the grounds that they're nuts; in order to rule on the substance of this case, a court would have to conduct new hearings to gather all the details about the original hearing in which AI was allegedly used. The purpose of judicial immunity is to push all objections to judicial decisions through the appellate courts, which don't have to re-hear everything before issuing a ruling.
  - exmadscientist 2mo ago
    Exactly. And if an appellate court got involved and somehow found a judge outsourced their judging to an AI, it's hard to imagine them accepting that. A "polite suggestion" that the relevant bar or judicial association look in to something, coming from a federal Circuit Court of Appeals, is neither polite nor a suggestion, and will receive the due gravity of a "polite suggestion" coming from one of the most powerful bodies in the country.
- aidenn0 2mo ago
  IANAL, but my understanding is that Judicial immunity in the US is absolute; if a Judge orders the police to beat up a defense attorney, they cannot be sued for it[1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mireles_v._Waco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mireles_v._Waco
  - TMatthewPhillip 2mo ago
    "Judicial immunity tends to corrupt, while absolute judicial immunity corrupts absolutely." ~T. Matthew Phillips, Esq.
- Kinrany 2mo ago
  The judge did make the decision to outsource to an LLM. This isn't new and isn't too different from tossing a coin.
  - TMatthewPhillip 2mo ago
    "...and isn't too different from tossing a coin." Nailed it!! :)
- nubg 2mo ago
  either the judge made the decision (in which case he has immunity) or he didn't (in which case he isn't the right person to sue) the correct steps are appeals in the merit and disciplinary action against the judge
- TMatthewPhillip 2mo ago
  You are correct. It's a due process violation. Here, the judge wrongfully delegated her decision-making duties, and such delegation is forbidden by law. Such delegation is NOT a proper judicial act; therefore, the doctrine of judicial immunity does NOT apply.
pavon 2mo ago
And there are processes for disciplining and even removing judges who fail to uphold their responsibilities. A private lawsuit simply isn't venue for doing so.
skeeter2020 2mo ago
>> When a judge has made a terrible decision for dumb reasons, you appeal it This is not how the legal system works. You need grounds for the Appeal - such as procedural - AND need to get another court to agree with your grounds AND be willing to have the case heard again. None of these are gimmes, and they all take time and money.
- keoneflick 2mo ago
  This definitely how the US system works. The core job of the appeal court is correct errors of law. Your other criticisms are valid, such as time, money and there is definitely deference to lower court judges. But the recourse for a judge misunderstanding the law (for AI or any reason) is the appeal process.

abeppu 2mo ago

But did the judge make the decision? I think there's a real question of whether this is a failure of due process rights. But I also think supreme Court Justices need to be awake for the court to actually hear arguments, so what do I know.

zdragnar 2mo ago
That is what the article and judgement was about- they can certainly use that argument to appeal the case, but not to hold the judge in the case personally liable.
SpicyLemonZest 2mo ago
There would be a real question if the judge in fact used AI. The plaintiff's complaint (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nvd.176224/gov.uscourts.nvd.176224.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nvd.176...) makes it pretty clear that he's just nuts and had no real reason to think she did. But of course a court can't dismiss someone's complaint on the grounds that they're nuts; in order to rule on the substance of this case, a court would have to conduct new hearings to gather all the details about the original hearing in which AI was allegedly used. The purpose of judicial immunity is to push all objections to judicial decisions through the appellate courts, which don't have to re-hear everything before issuing a ruling.
- exmadscientist 2mo ago
  Exactly. And if an appellate court got involved and somehow found a judge outsourced their judging to an AI, it's hard to imagine them accepting that. A "polite suggestion" that the relevant bar or judicial association look in to something, coming from a federal Circuit Court of Appeals, is neither polite nor a suggestion, and will receive the due gravity of a "polite suggestion" coming from one of the most powerful bodies in the country.
aidenn0 2mo ago
IANAL, but my understanding is that Judicial immunity in the US is absolute; if a Judge orders the police to beat up a defense attorney, they cannot be sued for it[1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mireles_v._Waco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mireles_v._Waco
- TMatthewPhillip 2mo ago
  "Judicial immunity tends to corrupt, while absolute judicial immunity corrupts absolutely." ~T. Matthew Phillips, Esq.
Kinrany 2mo ago
The judge did make the decision to outsource to an LLM. This isn't new and isn't too different from tossing a coin.
- TMatthewPhillip 2mo ago
  "...and isn't too different from tossing a coin." Nailed it!! :)
nubg 2mo ago
either the judge made the decision (in which case he has immunity) or he didn't (in which case he isn't the right person to sue) the correct steps are appeals in the merit and disciplinary action against the judge
TMatthewPhillip 2mo ago
You are correct. It's a due process violation. Here, the judge wrongfully delegated her decision-making duties, and such delegation is forbidden by law. Such delegation is NOT a proper judicial act; therefore, the doctrine of judicial immunity does NOT apply.

pavon 2mo ago

And there are processes for disciplining and even removing judges who fail to uphold their responsibilities. A private lawsuit simply isn't venue for doing so.

skeeter2020 2mo ago

>> When a judge has made a terrible decision for dumb reasons, you appeal it This is not how the legal system works. You need grounds for the Appeal - such as procedural - AND need to get another court to agree with your grounds AND be willing to have the case heard again. None of these are gimmes, and they all take time and money.

keoneflick 2mo ago
This definitely how the US system works. The core job of the appeal court is correct errors of law. Your other criticisms are valid, such as time, money and there is definitely deference to lower court judges. But the recourse for a judge misunderstanding the law (for AI or any reason) is the appeal process.