3 ms·

I don't get everyone's complaints about the interface. I've been using it for years, once you learn where things are I can get what I need done. The learning cu

by Liftyee 2mo ago

I don't get everyone's complaints about the interface. I've been using it for years, once you learn where things are I can get what I need done. The learning curve (finding where functions are, the right tools for each job, etc.) wasn't much different from other software like Blender or Darktable (or even Davinci Resolve). The panels concept might be the most intuitive part of it, but Blender also has different panels and modes. And the tools being combined into few buttons is similar to CAD programs I've used. Anyone enlighten me on actual usability problems (and not pedantry like "the spacing of these buttons is uneven"?) Perhaps I've gotten used to using unintuitive software.

barrkel 2mo ago
Export and Save As should be the same menu item with an option in the dialog. There are many many more but start with the app having the overbearing assumption that it thinks you want save to its file format rather than make an ad hoc edit.
- flufluflufluffy 2mo ago
  That “overbearing assumption” is made by practically every other X-media editing app, for good reason — you can save your work and continue/revert stuff later. If all you’ve ever used is MS paint then I guess it’s an unexpected thing, but any other image/video editing app, digital audio workstation, 3D modeling software, etc… work exactly the same way. It would be unexpected to me if “save as” exported a flat file.
  - account42 2mo ago
    Gimp doesn't save undo history in the XCF.
    - barrkel 2mo ago
      I guess the idea is you can do edits via non-destructive layer effects and compositing a stack of layers, where somewhere amongst the stack is your original unmolested data. Though that has not been my experience with Gimp - it's far more likely to want to to commit to a rasterizing decision far earlier than Photoshop would.
  - barrkel 2mo ago
    I don't care. 99% of my uses of an image editor are for ad hoc edits. I never want to clutter my disk with project files on the off-chance I want to preserve layers or whatnot. I have zfs snapshots and cloud backups should I want to revert but the odds I want to revert an ad hoc image edit are approximately nil - I can never recall needing to do so. I don't use Gimp as a 3D modeling software or a digital audio workstation. I use it to add text to a family photo. The primary storage medium is jpeg. I don't want or need anything else. The real issues with Gimp start when you try to work with selections, transforms, cuts, crops and so on. Photoshop muscle memory doesn't transfer and it is so incredibly clunky.
    - Macha 2mo ago
      Then Gimp is the wrong tool for you. You’re using a excavator to pull out weeds. Use Pinta or KolourPaint instead.
      - barrkel 2mo ago
        How do you do drop shadow layer mask effects with Pinta and KolourPaint?
    - Joeboy 2mo ago
      > I use it to add text to a family photo. The primary storage medium is jpeg. I don't want or need anything else. So you open your photo, add your text, press Ctrl+E, choose a filename or press Enter to overwrite your old version, and press Enter to accept the default jpeg settings. I guess it could save a couple of keypresses by auto-overwriting your original file without asking, or not asking about jpeg settings. But it doesn't seem like an outrageous workflow, considering that other people will want those options. I do feel the same way as you about Photoshop muscle memory, having got quite good at it in the '90s and never really having caught up in Gimp.
    - saltcured 2mo ago
      I can empathize. I don't really care about the save vs export thing, as I have adapted to that and just go directly to export in the menu. But, as a long time but infrequent user, I really dislike the changes towards "non-destructive" UX that just seems to spawn endless layers and other forms of pixel buffer limbo that confuse me. Lately, it feels like I'm being slow walked by a passive-aggressive tool that wants to waste my time and mental energy. I wish there was a "novice" or "casual" user setting option to go back to a much simpler UX, where I am operating immediately on the selected layer. Where a pasted object can be dragged but anchors as soon as I touch something else, etc. Where filters preview but then "apply" immediately. Where undo can revert some recent changes but otherwise the effects accumulate destructively into the current layer. A naive user may never have to learn about layers, but they are still there when desired. I don't want a layer spawning on their own. I'll make the new layer before I start changing things, and I'll think deliberately how I want that layer filled. Then, I'll resume actions that immediately mutate it.
- mort96 2mo ago
  The difference between exporting and saving is extremely important, and is something the user must understand in order to prevent data loss.
  - markstock 2mo ago
    And Gimp users are not more likely to know that? It adds up to extra clicks for 90% of the images I load.
    - em-bee 2mo ago
      how does the save/export distinction result in extra clicks? they are in the same menu right below each other. pick the right one. if you don't know you may pick the wrong one the first time, but after that you know. i find it faster than having to choose the format i want from a "save as" dialog
      - markstock 2mo ago
        It's when I want to close the image or the application - the extra click to confirm that, yes, I am aware this image was not "saved" and that I could be losing data. I admit I have not looked into whether I can disable that extra notification.
        em-bee 2mo ago
        ok, fair point. i agree, that's a bit annoying. and ideally it should also tell whether changes are made after exporting.
      - markstock 2mo ago
        You just reminded me of a great feature that I think I first noticed in The Gimp: you don't have to search through the list of file types when exporting (I almost typed "saving"!), just type the extension in the file name and it'll save in that format! Love that part.
- somat 2mo ago
  I still think the original behavior where it just saves as whatever extension was entered as the name was one of the more enlightened ways to operate. I sort of get their point. The "Only one of these formats(the one you have never heard of) will save all aspects of your work, every other one will lose things, pick wisely." school of interface design is a massive footgun. But I like interfaces that get out of your way and just let you do things. And I just had a bright idea, "forget the save dialog, just use the export dialog for everything" but it turns out the export dialog will not let you save to .xcf My disappointment is immeasurable. Why not gimp team? You dashed my last hope for a single unified interface. Somebody had to go out of their way to take that out.
amiga386 2mo ago
For decades, the tools panels floated separately from the image window, and the authors resolutely refused to put them in a single window. Then one day, they did it. They put the tools on the same window as the image, as Deluxe Paint did in 1985. FINALLY. ... but at the same time, they introduced the absolute bollocks that is "if you hit save we're going to spam you indefinitely into using our format". In any other tool, if you _open_ a file (e.g. a PNG, JPEG, or in say LibreOffice's case, a CSV or XLSX), and then hit "save", it can nag you once that you're not using the tool's preferred file format, and _may_ be missing some important feature that only its preferred format supports... but you should just be able to click "fuck that, save it as the format I loaded it as" and not hear that again. Not GIMP. It fucking well refuses to let you save as the format you opened. You have to cancel your "save" of the file you opened, and instead "export" to the file you opened... at which point it warns you you'll overwrite THE FILE YOU WANT TO SAVE. And after you've done that, and try to close the image, it'll warn you you haven't saved THE FUCKING FILE IT JUST FORCED YOU TO USE "EXPORT" TO SAVE because you didn't save it in its preferred format ABSOLUTELY GO FUCK YOURSELF, GIMP, I AM NOT GOING TO SAVE AS XCF A JPEG I AM CROPPING AND WILL NEVER EVER EDIT AGAIN This is why I completely gave up on GIMP and will never open it again. I would like to line up all the GIMP authors in a row, and run down the line slapping them all in the face with a wet trout. If anyone from GIMP is listening: * User opens a non-native format, e.g. JPEG * User hits "Save" * Present user with a dialog like so: This image may contain content that cannot be saved in the currently selected file format "JPEG" Use the default XCF file format to be sure the image is saved correctly [x] Ask when not saving in XCF or default format [Use JPEG format] [Use XCF format] * User can turn off this nag globally by deselecting "Ask when not saving in XCF or default format" * If user selects "Use JPEG format", future saves of this file will not nag again
- 7bit 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - nightfly 2mo ago
    Calling people who are okay with different programs having different behavior _bootlickers_ is obnoxious
bobspoogeragi 2mo ago
[dead]
Joeboy 2mo ago
I'm a fairly casual / infrequent user, but they've already addressed most of the things I found infuriating in the past. The big remaining thing I can think of is the "layer boundary" thing, which (it seems to me) is very confusing for new users and inconvenient for all users. I also have a vibes-based feeling that when I used to use Photoshop twenty-five years ago I was a lot more productive than I'm able to be in GIMP, but I can't be sure if that's just because I used to do more graphic stuff back then and I've never picked it up to the same degree. I find myself having to hunt for things in menus a lot, but that might be a me problem. Photoshop also took a while to get used to. Edit: I basically agree with the people complaining about Save and Export being unexpectedly separate, although also it's not that hard to press Ctrl+E instead of Ctrl+S.
itzprime 2mo ago
The learning curve certainly is a lot steeper than Photoshop or similar tools, and the GUI is very much counter intuitive compared to other graphics tools. Add that it lacked tons of nondestructive editing, smart objects etc. The poping out of different panels also get annoying super quick.
reactordev 2mo ago
>"I don't get everyone's complaints about the interface. I've been using it for years..." That's the problem, you have a bias because you've already learned the tribal knowledge. Having to learn it from scratch, GIMP's UI is sorely lacking. While it does have the tools, the organization of them is all over the place.
- account42 2mo ago
  Are you sure that the problem isn't just that you have learned a different tribal knowledge (e.g. Photoshop) and now expect every image application to work that way?
  - reactordev 2mo ago
    At no point did I mention myself or what programs I know.
- LollipopYakuza 2mo ago
  I have used Photosohop for almost 20 years, and then Affinity, Krita, and Gimp here and there. In my opinion, it's a bit of both. At first I thought I was just used to Photoshop and I had to just accept losing productivity to make the switch. But there something about Gimp UX that I can't get over, even though I can't really explain what is it. Of course fighting the muscle memory for all the features is a pain, but there's more. I can't find logic in the shortcuts, the menu organisation... I have not struggled as much for Krita or Affinity when I tried it.
jcarrano 2mo ago
Plus, it almost does not change between releases, so you need to learn it only once. The few times when I tried to use a recent version of Photoshop, however, I could not figure out even basic stuff like layer masks,
heaney-555 2mo ago
>I don't get everyone's complaints about the interface. I've been using it for years This made me chuckle.
anfogoat 2mo ago
> Anyone enlighten me on actual usability problems The latest one I can recall is the canvas losing focus when you click anywhere outside it. So, to continue working after you interact with the layers panel e.g., you'll need to go through the extra step of reactivating the canvas.
two_handfuls 2mo ago
> Anyone enlighten me on actual usability problems I wasn't able to use the "move" tool to move a semi-transparent layer, it kept on switching my selection to the layer below it and moving that. That violated my expectation. The solution was to use a modifier key, but it took me a while to find it.
- somat 2mo ago
  It is also in the tool options control pane ( Pick layer or guide | move the selected layers). Not going to say your expectation is wrong, I too almost always want the tool to operate on the selected layer rather than whatever layer has the pixels. But moving the layer with the pixels is not a bad default, it makes single click quick layer alignment moves possible. Also, salutes, sort of unrelated, but your post made me look into quick selection based editing, And there are some good operations I have never used in there including alt to move the selection and ctrl + alt to move what is in the selection.

by Liftyee 2mo ago

barrkel 2mo ago

Export and Save As should be the same menu item with an option in the dialog. There are many many more but start with the app having the overbearing assumption that it thinks you want save to its file format rather than make an ad hoc edit.

flufluflufluffy 2mo ago
That “overbearing assumption” is made by practically every other X-media editing app, for good reason — you can save your work and continue/revert stuff later. If all you’ve ever used is MS paint then I guess it’s an unexpected thing, but any other image/video editing app, digital audio workstation, 3D modeling software, etc… work exactly the same way. It would be unexpected to me if “save as” exported a flat file.
- account42 2mo ago
  Gimp doesn't save undo history in the XCF.
  - barrkel 2mo ago
    I guess the idea is you can do edits via non-destructive layer effects and compositing a stack of layers, where somewhere amongst the stack is your original unmolested data. Though that has not been my experience with Gimp - it's far more likely to want to to commit to a rasterizing decision far earlier than Photoshop would.
- barrkel 2mo ago
  I don't care. 99% of my uses of an image editor are for ad hoc edits. I never want to clutter my disk with project files on the off-chance I want to preserve layers or whatnot. I have zfs snapshots and cloud backups should I want to revert but the odds I want to revert an ad hoc image edit are approximately nil - I can never recall needing to do so. I don't use Gimp as a 3D modeling software or a digital audio workstation. I use it to add text to a family photo. The primary storage medium is jpeg. I don't want or need anything else. The real issues with Gimp start when you try to work with selections, transforms, cuts, crops and so on. Photoshop muscle memory doesn't transfer and it is so incredibly clunky.
  - Macha 2mo ago
    Then Gimp is the wrong tool for you. You’re using a excavator to pull out weeds. Use Pinta or KolourPaint instead.
    - barrkel 2mo ago
      How do you do drop shadow layer mask effects with Pinta and KolourPaint?
  - Joeboy 2mo ago
    > I use it to add text to a family photo. The primary storage medium is jpeg. I don't want or need anything else. So you open your photo, add your text, press Ctrl+E, choose a filename or press Enter to overwrite your old version, and press Enter to accept the default jpeg settings. I guess it could save a couple of keypresses by auto-overwriting your original file without asking, or not asking about jpeg settings. But it doesn't seem like an outrageous workflow, considering that other people will want those options. I do feel the same way as you about Photoshop muscle memory, having got quite good at it in the '90s and never really having caught up in Gimp.
  - saltcured 2mo ago
    I can empathize. I don't really care about the save vs export thing, as I have adapted to that and just go directly to export in the menu. But, as a long time but infrequent user, I really dislike the changes towards "non-destructive" UX that just seems to spawn endless layers and other forms of pixel buffer limbo that confuse me. Lately, it feels like I'm being slow walked by a passive-aggressive tool that wants to waste my time and mental energy. I wish there was a "novice" or "casual" user setting option to go back to a much simpler UX, where I am operating immediately on the selected layer. Where a pasted object can be dragged but anchors as soon as I touch something else, etc. Where filters preview but then "apply" immediately. Where undo can revert some recent changes but otherwise the effects accumulate destructively into the current layer. A naive user may never have to learn about layers, but they are still there when desired. I don't want a layer spawning on their own. I'll make the new layer before I start changing things, and I'll think deliberately how I want that layer filled. Then, I'll resume actions that immediately mutate it.
mort96 2mo ago
The difference between exporting and saving is extremely important, and is something the user must understand in order to prevent data loss.
- markstock 2mo ago
  And Gimp users are not more likely to know that? It adds up to extra clicks for 90% of the images I load.
  - em-bee 2mo ago
    how does the save/export distinction result in extra clicks? they are in the same menu right below each other. pick the right one. if you don't know you may pick the wrong one the first time, but after that you know. i find it faster than having to choose the format i want from a "save as" dialog
    - markstock 2mo ago
      It's when I want to close the image or the application - the extra click to confirm that, yes, I am aware this image was not "saved" and that I could be losing data. I admit I have not looked into whether I can disable that extra notification.
      - em-bee 2mo ago
        ok, fair point. i agree, that's a bit annoying. and ideally it should also tell whether changes are made after exporting.
    - markstock 2mo ago
      You just reminded me of a great feature that I think I first noticed in The Gimp: you don't have to search through the list of file types when exporting (I almost typed "saving"!), just type the extension in the file name and it'll save in that format! Love that part.
somat 2mo ago
I still think the original behavior where it just saves as whatever extension was entered as the name was one of the more enlightened ways to operate. I sort of get their point. The "Only one of these formats(the one you have never heard of) will save all aspects of your work, every other one will lose things, pick wisely." school of interface design is a massive footgun. But I like interfaces that get out of your way and just let you do things. And I just had a bright idea, "forget the save dialog, just use the export dialog for everything" but it turns out the export dialog will not let you save to .xcf My disappointment is immeasurable. Why not gimp team? You dashed my last hope for a single unified interface. Somebody had to go out of their way to take that out.

amiga386 2mo ago

For decades, the tools panels floated separately from the image window, and the authors resolutely refused to put them in a single window. Then one day, they did it. They put the tools on the same window as the image, as Deluxe Paint did in 1985. FINALLY. ... but at the same time, they introduced the absolute bollocks that is "if you hit save we're going to spam you indefinitely into using our format". In any other tool, if you _open_ a file (e.g. a PNG, JPEG, or in say LibreOffice's case, a CSV or XLSX), and then hit "save", it can nag you once that you're not using the tool's preferred file format, and _may_ be missing some important feature that only its preferred format supports... but you should just be able to click "fuck that, save it as the format I loaded it as" and not hear that again. Not GIMP. It fucking well refuses to let you save as the format you opened. You have to cancel your "save" of the file you opened, and instead "export" to the file you opened... at which point it warns you you'll overwrite THE FILE YOU WANT TO SAVE. And after you've done that, and try to close the image, it'll warn you you haven't saved THE FUCKING FILE IT JUST FORCED YOU TO USE "EXPORT" TO SAVE because you didn't save it in its preferred format ABSOLUTELY GO FUCK YOURSELF, GIMP, I AM NOT GOING TO SAVE AS XCF A JPEG I AM CROPPING AND WILL NEVER EVER EDIT AGAIN This is why I completely gave up on GIMP and will never open it again. I would like to line up all the GIMP authors in a row, and run down the line slapping them all in the face with a wet trout. If anyone from GIMP is listening: * User opens a non-native format, e.g. JPEG * User hits "Save" * Present user with a dialog like so: This image may contain content that cannot be saved in the currently selected file format "JPEG" Use the default XCF file format to be sure the image is saved correctly [x] Ask when not saving in XCF or default format [Use JPEG format] [Use XCF format] * User can turn off this nag globally by deselecting "Ask when not saving in XCF or default format" * If user selects "Use JPEG format", future saves of this file will not nag again

7bit 2mo ago
[flagged]
- nightfly 2mo ago
  Calling people who are okay with different programs having different behavior _bootlickers_ is obnoxious

bobspoogeragi 2mo ago

[dead]

Joeboy 2mo ago

I'm a fairly casual / infrequent user, but they've already addressed most of the things I found infuriating in the past. The big remaining thing I can think of is the "layer boundary" thing, which (it seems to me) is very confusing for new users and inconvenient for all users. I also have a vibes-based feeling that when I used to use Photoshop twenty-five years ago I was a lot more productive than I'm able to be in GIMP, but I can't be sure if that's just because I used to do more graphic stuff back then and I've never picked it up to the same degree. I find myself having to hunt for things in menus a lot, but that might be a me problem. Photoshop also took a while to get used to. Edit: I basically agree with the people complaining about Save and Export being unexpectedly separate, although also it's not that hard to press Ctrl+E instead of Ctrl+S.

itzprime 2mo ago

The learning curve certainly is a lot steeper than Photoshop or similar tools, and the GUI is very much counter intuitive compared to other graphics tools. Add that it lacked tons of nondestructive editing, smart objects etc. The poping out of different panels also get annoying super quick.

reactordev 2mo ago

>"I don't get everyone's complaints about the interface. I've been using it for years..." That's the problem, you have a bias because you've already learned the tribal knowledge. Having to learn it from scratch, GIMP's UI is sorely lacking. While it does have the tools, the organization of them is all over the place.

account42 2mo ago
Are you sure that the problem isn't just that you have learned a different tribal knowledge (e.g. Photoshop) and now expect every image application to work that way?
- reactordev 2mo ago
  At no point did I mention myself or what programs I know.
LollipopYakuza 2mo ago
I have used Photosohop for almost 20 years, and then Affinity, Krita, and Gimp here and there. In my opinion, it's a bit of both. At first I thought I was just used to Photoshop and I had to just accept losing productivity to make the switch. But there something about Gimp UX that I can't get over, even though I can't really explain what is it. Of course fighting the muscle memory for all the features is a pain, but there's more. I can't find logic in the shortcuts, the menu organisation... I have not struggled as much for Krita or Affinity when I tried it.

jcarrano 2mo ago

Plus, it almost does not change between releases, so you need to learn it only once. The few times when I tried to use a recent version of Photoshop, however, I could not figure out even basic stuff like layer masks,

heaney-555 2mo ago

>I don't get everyone's complaints about the interface. I've been using it for years This made me chuckle.

anfogoat 2mo ago

> Anyone enlighten me on actual usability problems The latest one I can recall is the canvas losing focus when you click anywhere outside it. So, to continue working after you interact with the layers panel e.g., you'll need to go through the extra step of reactivating the canvas.

two_handfuls 2mo ago

> Anyone enlighten me on actual usability problems I wasn't able to use the "move" tool to move a semi-transparent layer, it kept on switching my selection to the layer below it and moving that. That violated my expectation. The solution was to use a modifier key, but it took me a while to find it.

somat 2mo ago
It is also in the tool options control pane ( Pick layer or guide | move the selected layers). Not going to say your expectation is wrong, I too almost always want the tool to operate on the selected layer rather than whatever layer has the pixels. But moving the layer with the pixels is not a bad default, it makes single click quick layer alignment moves possible. Also, salutes, sort of unrelated, but your post made me look into quick selection based editing, And there are some good operations I have never used in there including alt to move the selection and ctrl + alt to move what is in the selection.