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Can anyone explain the reasoning behind it? I can understand (not saying I approve) targeted opposition to specific scientific claims to favor commercial intere

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind it? I can understand (not saying I approve) targeted opposition to specific scientific claims to favor commercial interests (climate change denial to favor oil & gas, etc), but wouldn't a general anti-science movement make the country less competitive in the long run and directly hurt industries like pharma/etc?

gpm 2mo ago
Punishing apparent ideological enemies is a long standing mechanism for fascists and dictators - and scientists in the US qualify. It's an attempt to make people fear standing against them. Destroying sources of truth is a long standing goal for those who want people to act against their own interest, and scientists are a source of truth. It's shrinking the pie so that the republican leadership can capture a much bigger slice of it.
numpad0 2mo ago
I know this isn't HN type of a topic or a comment, but looking at US from outside, the theme looks to be explicitly destroying US hegemony and meritocracy... What I feel to be a common denominator for Trump, Thiel/Musk, and MAGA types, is that they are the people who "otherwise wouldn't have been chosen" for one reason or another. I've had stupidly engaged in a pointless argument with MAGA type people on some anonymous forum, and what I slowly realized is that a lot of them fail to hide having an okay picture of the actual reality when absolutely cornered and pushed hard, with the caveat that the chances for them getting any win whatsoever by embracing some alternative, conspiracy, false narratives is above zero, whereas the same for not doing so is at very most zero. There have been news reports of Bill Gates and Elon Musk both having engaged in quite some reprehensible acts on some island, but Gates would still always come first on headlines whenever they would be in a photo together. This would be contrast to how media universally reports Musk throwing the Nazi salute(which is the worst I've seen in any media that unironically makes me wonder how a real neo nazi would pause, exhale, say "you know," and shut up in German on camera reviewing it), which do yield a bunch of single name headlines. They would not have a chance of getting dopamine hit standing straight on both feet and looking straight ahead uttering all the correct words. Destroying everything that gets in the way to end this their "suffering" seem like the goal to me. I mean, there's a very succinct and less nice word for that group of people that begins with the letter in the middle of the logo under the crown for the Dutch royal airline, but that word doesn't feel like it captures the verticality of this phenomenon.
- deadbunny 2mo ago
  Narcissist doesn't start with L...
- b40d-48b2-979e 2mo ago
  It was never a meritocracy. That's a lie to keep the workers in line.
  - numpad0 2mo ago
    Doesn't really matter. It works and keep this tall column of guys out. So probably not just workers. They don't like that. Call them narcs or psychos or autistic but I don't think the boring machine is catching too many of those guys.
bigbadfeline 2mo ago
> but wouldn't a general anti-science movement make the country less competitive It's not "a general anti-science movement", it's about tight control, everything else is unimportant. > directly hurt industries like pharma/etc Not a problem if tight control is in place.
eli_gottlieb 2mo ago
> wouldn't a general anti-science movement make the country less competitive in the long run Less competitive for tertiary industries like tech, pharma, etc. More competitive for lower-level industries like mining, resource extraction, low-tech and labor-intensive manufacturing, etc. The Administration represents the latter economic sectors. They want more people in factories and fewer people in offices.
amelius 2mo ago
To make it easier to push "alternative truths". I think the plan might be to reinstate science in some form after they have grabbed full control of the country.
- bonoboTP 2mo ago
  "Alternative facts" vs "other ways of knowing". Great choices that America has. Objective science is off the table for both camps.
  - tancop 2mo ago
    It's recognizing thats science is not the only valid form of knowledge vs pushing fringe theories that claim to be science but don't follow the expected standards. The definition of pseudoscience is something that a) claims to use the scientific method and b) is not actually doing it properly. The "other ways of knowing" you talk about don't meet the first condition, but the right wing "alternative facts" do. Saying climate change is fake is a testable claim that contradicts mainstream science. Saying it's caused by spiritual corruption is not because anything supernatural is out of scope by definition. Science limits itself to the predictable, testable, natural, objective (if you believe in that) parts of the universe because otherwise it would be useless. If the answer to any question can be "because God wanted it that way" then all theories end there. That doesn't mean science denying the existence of God, just indifferent to it and all other spiritual beliefs. A theory that depends on a religion being false would also not count as scientific. "Other ways of knowing" is an expression used for indigenous knowledge with elements of both science and spiritual views. Nobody is saying that it's fully science or should be treated as such, just that we should respect it and treat it as equal. I don't see how that could be equivalent to anti vax conspiracies.
999900000999 2mo ago
Reality has a well known liberal bias. For example, the Security of War recently had a well produced video saying we're going to do anyway with vaccine mandates for the military. >Hegseth announced in late April that he was making the annual flu vaccine voluntary for service members "effective immediately." In a video posted to social media, Hegseth said requiring people to get vaccinated was "overly broad and not rational." >By early May, all military departments had formally requested exemptions that allow them to keep requiring flu vaccinations for certain service members, and those exemptions were granted in early June, according to the congressional staffer. The exemptions typically apply to vulnerable populations like people who live in communal environments, healthcare workers and other categories, the staffer said https://www.cbsnews.com/news/military-flu-vaccine-recruits-hegseth-lackland-outbreak/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/military-flu-vaccine-recruits-h... See that pesky reality thing. Trying to understand conservative thought is to go into a bizarre twilight zone where vaccines cause autism, do more harm than good, and at the same time our " adversaries" deliberately created illnesses which can be prevented by vaccines. Then again, maybe the illnesses are designed to get more people vaccinated, in order to spread autism. Behind it all. Big Train of course.
- qsera 2mo ago
  >Trying to understand conservative thought is to go into a bizarre twilight zone where vaccines cause autism And to understand this thought is to go into the other twilight zone where "vaccine" is a single thing with a single composition with only a single set of properties and effects on the organism.
- throwawaypath 2mo ago
  "Reality has a left-wing bias" the leftist chortled moments after claiming males can be pregnant.
curt15 2mo ago
A body of independent subject matter experts who command public respect is anathema to authoritarian governments. It's why authoritarian takeovers frequently start by targeting major universities.
- kraken_cult 2mo ago
  Except we both know they weren't really that independent though... This was on HN a few days ago https://archive.is/Ayf4R https://archive.is/Ayf4R

gpm 2mo ago

Punishing apparent ideological enemies is a long standing mechanism for fascists and dictators - and scientists in the US qualify. It's an attempt to make people fear standing against them. Destroying sources of truth is a long standing goal for those who want people to act against their own interest, and scientists are a source of truth. It's shrinking the pie so that the republican leadership can capture a much bigger slice of it.

numpad0 2mo ago

I know this isn't HN type of a topic or a comment, but looking at US from outside, the theme looks to be explicitly destroying US hegemony and meritocracy... What I feel to be a common denominator for Trump, Thiel/Musk, and MAGA types, is that they are the people who "otherwise wouldn't have been chosen" for one reason or another. I've had stupidly engaged in a pointless argument with MAGA type people on some anonymous forum, and what I slowly realized is that a lot of them fail to hide having an okay picture of the actual reality when absolutely cornered and pushed hard, with the caveat that the chances for them getting any win whatsoever by embracing some alternative, conspiracy, false narratives is above zero, whereas the same for not doing so is at very most zero. There have been news reports of Bill Gates and Elon Musk both having engaged in quite some reprehensible acts on some island, but Gates would still always come first on headlines whenever they would be in a photo together. This would be contrast to how media universally reports Musk throwing the Nazi salute(which is the worst I've seen in any media that unironically makes me wonder how a real neo nazi would pause, exhale, say "you know," and shut up in German on camera reviewing it), which do yield a bunch of single name headlines. They would not have a chance of getting dopamine hit standing straight on both feet and looking straight ahead uttering all the correct words. Destroying everything that gets in the way to end this their "suffering" seem like the goal to me. I mean, there's a very succinct and less nice word for that group of people that begins with the letter in the middle of the logo under the crown for the Dutch royal airline, but that word doesn't feel like it captures the verticality of this phenomenon.

deadbunny 2mo ago
Narcissist doesn't start with L...
b40d-48b2-979e 2mo ago
It was never a meritocracy. That's a lie to keep the workers in line.
- numpad0 2mo ago
  Doesn't really matter. It works and keep this tall column of guys out. So probably not just workers. They don't like that. Call them narcs or psychos or autistic but I don't think the boring machine is catching too many of those guys.

bigbadfeline 2mo ago

> but wouldn't a general anti-science movement make the country less competitive It's not "a general anti-science movement", it's about tight control, everything else is unimportant. > directly hurt industries like pharma/etc Not a problem if tight control is in place.

eli_gottlieb 2mo ago

> wouldn't a general anti-science movement make the country less competitive in the long run Less competitive for tertiary industries like tech, pharma, etc. More competitive for lower-level industries like mining, resource extraction, low-tech and labor-intensive manufacturing, etc. The Administration represents the latter economic sectors. They want more people in factories and fewer people in offices.

amelius 2mo ago

To make it easier to push "alternative truths". I think the plan might be to reinstate science in some form after they have grabbed full control of the country.

bonoboTP 2mo ago
"Alternative facts" vs "other ways of knowing". Great choices that America has. Objective science is off the table for both camps.
- tancop 2mo ago
  It's recognizing thats science is not the only valid form of knowledge vs pushing fringe theories that claim to be science but don't follow the expected standards. The definition of pseudoscience is something that a) claims to use the scientific method and b) is not actually doing it properly. The "other ways of knowing" you talk about don't meet the first condition, but the right wing "alternative facts" do. Saying climate change is fake is a testable claim that contradicts mainstream science. Saying it's caused by spiritual corruption is not because anything supernatural is out of scope by definition. Science limits itself to the predictable, testable, natural, objective (if you believe in that) parts of the universe because otherwise it would be useless. If the answer to any question can be "because God wanted it that way" then all theories end there. That doesn't mean science denying the existence of God, just indifferent to it and all other spiritual beliefs. A theory that depends on a religion being false would also not count as scientific. "Other ways of knowing" is an expression used for indigenous knowledge with elements of both science and spiritual views. Nobody is saying that it's fully science or should be treated as such, just that we should respect it and treat it as equal. I don't see how that could be equivalent to anti vax conspiracies.

999900000999 2mo ago

Reality has a well known liberal bias. For example, the Security of War recently had a well produced video saying we're going to do anyway with vaccine mandates for the military. >Hegseth announced in late April that he was making the annual flu vaccine voluntary for service members "effective immediately." In a video posted to social media, Hegseth said requiring people to get vaccinated was "overly broad and not rational." >By early May, all military departments had formally requested exemptions that allow them to keep requiring flu vaccinations for certain service members, and those exemptions were granted in early June, according to the congressional staffer. The exemptions typically apply to vulnerable populations like people who live in communal environments, healthcare workers and other categories, the staffer said https://www.cbsnews.com/news/military-flu-vaccine-recruits-hegseth-lackland-outbreak/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/military-flu-vaccine-recruits-h... See that pesky reality thing. Trying to understand conservative thought is to go into a bizarre twilight zone where vaccines cause autism, do more harm than good, and at the same time our " adversaries" deliberately created illnesses which can be prevented by vaccines. Then again, maybe the illnesses are designed to get more people vaccinated, in order to spread autism. Behind it all. Big Train of course.

qsera 2mo ago
>Trying to understand conservative thought is to go into a bizarre twilight zone where vaccines cause autism And to understand this thought is to go into the other twilight zone where "vaccine" is a single thing with a single composition with only a single set of properties and effects on the organism.
throwawaypath 2mo ago
"Reality has a left-wing bias" the leftist chortled moments after claiming males can be pregnant.

curt15 2mo ago

A body of independent subject matter experts who command public respect is anathema to authoritarian governments. It's why authoritarian takeovers frequently start by targeting major universities.

kraken_cult 2mo ago
Except we both know they weren't really that independent though... This was on HN a few days ago https://archive.is/Ayf4R https://archive.is/Ayf4R