3 ms·

It's actually solved by putting thieves in prison (by the help of flock cameras).

by jvuygbbkuurx 2mo ago

defrost 2mo ago
Is it though? Does prison work as a deterrence to others?
- blfr 2mo ago
  There's usually a fairly small number of criminals in the population and they have short careers. Otherwise, the whole enterprise of society wouldn't be viable. So once you take them off the streets for a couple of years, or decades for the more hardened ones, it's fine. It has an added benefit of breaking criminal networks so the future adepts have no place to fence the stolen goods.
  - simondotau 2mo ago
    On one hand, you’re breaking existing networks; on the other hand you are establishing a social club for new ones.
    - KennyBlanken 2mo ago
      That person is insanely naive - either very young, or very lacking in life experience and worldly knowledge.
  - KennyBlanken 2mo ago
    "It has an added benefit of breaking criminal networks so the future adepts have no place to fence the stolen goods" is probably the most naive thing I've ever heard. I also think you have no idea how much it costs per prisoner per year. I also think you have no idea how much harder it is for someone to get a job, housing, a partner, etc after they have a conviction. Or how much whatever life they had falls apart, which includes partners, friends, family. And guess what happens when you strip away all of someone's social connections? They lose that safety net, and are now dependent upon whatever society as whole provides. And in the US we have people saying "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" non-ironically, not realizing the whole fucking point of that phrase is that recovering from poverty in the US is extremely difficult. That money is better spent on helping people who are not able to afford basic necessities, because that is why a lot of people commit property crime. I suggest you actually open up some studies on this subject because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Or just open up a chart reflecting the economy over the decades and compare it with property crime rates. The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by both headcount and percentage of the population. How's that working for us? We have one of the higher property and violent crime rates among developed nations. Far higher than nations where criminals are imprisoned for rehabilitation, not to punish. Things like giving them a cell that looks like a bedroom, not pen in an animal shelter.
    - mlrtime 2mo ago
      >That money is better spent on helping people who are not able to afford basic necessities, because that is why a lot of people commit property crime. Do you have anything to back this up? You think people are stealing because they lack basic necessities? How are you defining this?
  - Toutouxc 2mo ago
    Do you have any kind of education in this area? Because that doesn’t sound like the little that I’ve read about sociology and psychology.
    - murderfs 2mo ago
      It's pretty well established for violent crime, at least: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3969807/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3969807/ The recidivism rate for property crime is higher than violent crime, so it seems plausible that the same is true for theft: https://counciloncj.org/recidivism_report/ https://counciloncj.org/recidivism_report/
- ajkjk 2mo ago
  The idea is that it lowers the number of thieves.
- notourproblem 2mo ago
  [dead]
retired 2mo ago
Where I live that’s a win win for thieves. Earn money stealing a bike, have a roof over your head and free food.
wahnfrieden 2mo ago
Police here don’t even care to help if your car is stolen and you have GPS on it. Cameras and jail do nothing to help protect your property if the police refuse to work.
- pbhjpbhj 2mo ago
  "here"? We don't know where you are. In the UK police will ask the value of the property stolen and use that to decide whether to do anything. Low-value is under a few £k.
  - wahnfrieden 2mo ago
    Toronto or NYC same story
KennyBlanken 2mo ago
Aside from the fact that there's little to no actual evidence (not funded by flock cherry-picking, and doing a lot of extremely thin correlation/causation nonsense... No, it's actually solved by providing social safety net programs and managing the economy to have entry level accessible jobs that pay a living wage. People steal because they run out of other options. The cost of flock contracts would be far better spent on food pantries, job counseling, emergency housing... There is nearly zero correlation between the number of police and the amount of crime.
SoftTalker 2mo ago
Prisons are full. We have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. No cops, prosecutors, or judges are interested in putting a bike thief in prison. We've just decided it's an acceptable cost in our society. It's another reason that cycling is not a useable mode of transport in many places: if you don't have a secure/indoor place to put your bike at work or while shopping, it will get stolen. So you either ride bikes that you can afford to lose, which sucks if you have to go any real distance, or you drive.

It's actually solved by putting thieves in prison (by the help of flock cameras).

defrost 2mo ago

Is it though? Does prison work as a deterrence to others?

blfr 2mo ago
There's usually a fairly small number of criminals in the population and they have short careers. Otherwise, the whole enterprise of society wouldn't be viable. So once you take them off the streets for a couple of years, or decades for the more hardened ones, it's fine. It has an added benefit of breaking criminal networks so the future adepts have no place to fence the stolen goods.
- simondotau 2mo ago
  On one hand, you’re breaking existing networks; on the other hand you are establishing a social club for new ones.
  - KennyBlanken 2mo ago
    That person is insanely naive - either very young, or very lacking in life experience and worldly knowledge.
- KennyBlanken 2mo ago
  "It has an added benefit of breaking criminal networks so the future adepts have no place to fence the stolen goods" is probably the most naive thing I've ever heard. I also think you have no idea how much it costs per prisoner per year. I also think you have no idea how much harder it is for someone to get a job, housing, a partner, etc after they have a conviction. Or how much whatever life they had falls apart, which includes partners, friends, family. And guess what happens when you strip away all of someone's social connections? They lose that safety net, and are now dependent upon whatever society as whole provides. And in the US we have people saying "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" non-ironically, not realizing the whole fucking point of that phrase is that recovering from poverty in the US is extremely difficult. That money is better spent on helping people who are not able to afford basic necessities, because that is why a lot of people commit property crime. I suggest you actually open up some studies on this subject because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Or just open up a chart reflecting the economy over the decades and compare it with property crime rates. The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by both headcount and percentage of the population. How's that working for us? We have one of the higher property and violent crime rates among developed nations. Far higher than nations where criminals are imprisoned for rehabilitation, not to punish. Things like giving them a cell that looks like a bedroom, not pen in an animal shelter.
  - mlrtime 2mo ago
    >That money is better spent on helping people who are not able to afford basic necessities, because that is why a lot of people commit property crime. Do you have anything to back this up? You think people are stealing because they lack basic necessities? How are you defining this?
- Toutouxc 2mo ago
  Do you have any kind of education in this area? Because that doesn’t sound like the little that I’ve read about sociology and psychology.
  - murderfs 2mo ago
    It's pretty well established for violent crime, at least: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3969807/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3969807/ The recidivism rate for property crime is higher than violent crime, so it seems plausible that the same is true for theft: https://counciloncj.org/recidivism_report/ https://counciloncj.org/recidivism_report/
ajkjk 2mo ago
The idea is that it lowers the number of thieves.
notourproblem 2mo ago
[dead]

retired 2mo ago

Where I live that’s a win win for thieves. Earn money stealing a bike, have a roof over your head and free food.

wahnfrieden 2mo ago

Police here don’t even care to help if your car is stolen and you have GPS on it. Cameras and jail do nothing to help protect your property if the police refuse to work.

pbhjpbhj 2mo ago
"here"? We don't know where you are. In the UK police will ask the value of the property stolen and use that to decide whether to do anything. Low-value is under a few £k.
- wahnfrieden 2mo ago
  Toronto or NYC same story

KennyBlanken 2mo ago

Aside from the fact that there's little to no actual evidence (not funded by flock cherry-picking, and doing a lot of extremely thin correlation/causation nonsense... No, it's actually solved by providing social safety net programs and managing the economy to have entry level accessible jobs that pay a living wage. People steal because they run out of other options. The cost of flock contracts would be far better spent on food pantries, job counseling, emergency housing... There is nearly zero correlation between the number of police and the amount of crime.

SoftTalker 2mo ago

Prisons are full. We have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. No cops, prosecutors, or judges are interested in putting a bike thief in prison. We've just decided it's an acceptable cost in our society. It's another reason that cycling is not a useable mode of transport in many places: if you don't have a secure/indoor place to put your bike at work or while shopping, it will get stolen. So you either ride bikes that you can afford to lose, which sucks if you have to go any real distance, or you drive.