6 ms·

Relatedly, there is evidence that certain types of "resistant starch" can help reduce visceral fat. This starch comes from green bananas, potatoes, legumes, etc

Relatedly, there is evidence that certain types of "resistant starch" can help reduce visceral fat. This starch comes from green bananas, potatoes, legumes, etc. It has to be either raw (there are supplements for this) or cooked and cooled. "Resistant starch intake facilitates weight loss in humans by reshaping the gut microbiota" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10963277/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10963277/ Edit: Ah, HN submission 2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39592367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39592367

mapotofu 2mo ago
[flagged]
- judge2020 2mo ago
  "you people" > The study was conducted in Shanghai, China from 3 July 2013 to 14 October 2016 Figuring out and understanding the physiology of different gut bacteria is not just for people trying to shortcut weight loss while still eating unhealthy food or to be sedentary all day.
- benatkin 2mo ago
  Eh, the "real food" of Jamie Oliver and Michael Pollan (shop the peripheries) and such isn't very health promoting. So I'll pass and keep eating a mix of fresh food and cheap food that keeps for a long time like legumes. Kthxbai.
  - qbit42 2mo ago
    Are legumes not "real food"?
    - benatkin 2mo ago
      To Michael Pollan it seems they aren't worth mentioning right in the first breath when talking about real food, but perhaps an afterthought. "Shop the peripheries" causes them to be lumped in with potato chips and oreos and other stuff that aren't in the peripheries of a supermarket. I don't accept the same real food dichotomy that they do.
      - mapotofu 2mo ago
        Beans are a direct product of plants. I don’t know what you are on about, but I’m sure even the celebrities you take so much stock in consider them “real food”, too. I wouldn’t know, because I have no idea what you’re ranting about.
        benatkin 2mo ago
        They talk so much about freshness. That is an indirect and unnecessary and probably unintentional dig at dry beans, grains, seeds, nuts, etc. While I can entertain the idea that they're more reasonable in their diets this makes them bad nutrition communicators.
declan_roberts 2mo ago
I feel like I've heard this story 1 million times before.
judge2020 2mo ago
IMO my only concern is their dats shows they were actually able to maintain a pretty controlled diet for each participant, I wonder how selection was done. I also would've appreciated some bomb calorimetry of fecal samples, similar to [0] which is the widely cited paper that does link general fiber intake to a lower level of caloric/energy absorption. Baer, David J., et al. "Dietary fiber decreases the metabolizable energy content and nutrient digestibility of mixed diets fed to humans." The Journal of nutrition 127.4 (1997): 579-586.
paimapi 2mo ago
sample size n=37 of which recruitment only happened in Shanghai without any real control for confounders, only evaluated over a period of two weeks with no longterm follow-ups, the dosage of 40g RS/d is very high (would take about 4-5 large potatoes daily for equivalency or ingesting likely expensive supplement), the crossover compares RS vs CS in the same participants with only a 4 week washout which is a weakness since fermentable fiber persists >4 weeks, also the supplement they used was industry-provided by a starch manufacturer which was weirdly not disclosed this is a great study if you are an overweight/obese adult without overt metabolic disease, willing and able to consume 90 g/d of starch supplement within a controlled diet, and living in Shanghai with similar baseline fiber intakes endemic to that population. it is extremely not generalizeable to you or even me though I fit more of those characteristics than I care to admit stay skeptical of small studies like this, friend
- lluisantoni 2mo ago
  Also, the authors claim the starch "inhibited lipid absorption." They do not argue why they used surrogate blood biomarkers instead of residual energy output in fecal samples (which is a better measurement). sample size is 37, number of authors 29
- dudisubekti 2mo ago
  > not generalizable But there's already a general advise on this: eat more fiber. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2017/08/hunter-gatherers-seasonal-gut-microbe-diversity-loss.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2017/08/hunter-gather... We're a great ape, our body evolved to process a lot of fiber from fruits and starches. It's the modern fiber-deficient diet that's really weird. 90g/day of fiber is similar to the Hadza tribe diet, where they can consume 100-150g of fiber per day.
  - iamacyborg 2mo ago
    Fiber’s the new fad supplement.
    - 2mo ago
faangguyindia 2mo ago
You can just go on a calorie deficit and it will reduce your visceral fat when you start getting lean enough. But obviously, most people are a lot more interested in finding a magic food which does this rather than a proven calorie deficit, which is highly effective.
- cryptoegorophy 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - faangguyindia 2mo ago
    Metabolism was an excuse when we could not reliably estimate it outside laboratory; today we can do that too, for completely free (we run a public benefit app for this). Method here: https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/rethink/adaptive-tdee/ https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/rethink/adaptive-tdee/ People can find the algorithm here: https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/macrocodex/smart-calorie-burn-v2/ https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/macrocodex/smart-calorie-bu... In fact, our claim on the app is results within 2-5 weeks for both weight gain and weight loss; I've yet to find a guy who did not achieve success with this. Calorie deficit is the most effective method for weight loss. What's funny is when people actually measure their metabolism with this approach, they realize they aren't far off from the average!
    - eru 2mo ago
      I'm not quite sure why or how estimating metabolism helps here? I mean, observing the weightloss / gain or lack thereof itself will tell you whether you need more of a calorie deficit or surplus. What does an independent metabolism estimate buy you?
      - deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
      - faangguyindia 2mo ago
        macrocodex helps you figure out your "total calorie burn in 24 hours." How difficult is it? Just eat below the orange line to lose weight and eat above the orange line to gain weight: https://macrocodex.app/assets/hero-tdee-line.v3.1b8c60c2271f.png https://macrocodex.app/assets/hero-tdee-line.v3.1b8c60c2271f... In the image, you see the app continuously updates maintenance calories from observed evidence; on the homescreen, it provides the calorie and macro targets you need to follow: https://macrocodex.app/assets/flow-targets.v3.edc3f34458a1.png https://macrocodex.app/assets/flow-targets.v3.edc3f34458a1.p... It was never this easy, imho. Many people used TDEE calculators in past, which suffer from the limitation described here: https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/rethink/adaptive-tdee/#tdee-calculators-and-chatgpt https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/rethink/adaptive-tdee/#tdee... It's useful for both Newbies and Pros. When a person figures out their maintenance calories and looks for the average metabolic rate / maintenance calories for their height, weight, and gender, they realize they are not "genetically inferior" or have some serious issue which is stopping them from progressing if their maintenance calories are within average range! Just knowing that there is nothing wrong with your metabolism gives people enough push to continuously walk on this path and achieve their goal. >I mean, observing the weightloss / gain or lack thereof itself will tell you whether you need more of a calorie deficit or surplus. You can read app reviews and these will tell you, complete newbies are having great success with this approach. If you ask a layman on the street, they'll tell you eat less to lose weight, eat more to gain weight. The question is: what is less, and what is more? How many calories precisely do we need to eat to achieve 1lb per week of weight loss? Your total calorie burn for the day changes week to week; people don't know how to make the right adjustments. Many people crash diet; they lose weight, then they cannot sustain it for long, binge eat, and gain it all back. What key knowledge are they missing? Sustainable deficit. If you apply a sustainable deficit over a longer period of time, you may not "suffer" as much as you would otherwise I am not saying drastic deficits are not useful; they are to those who are experienced. Let's say an MMA guy or bodybuilder can do it just fine! Also, for lean bulking in natural bodybuilding, you need a specific rate of weight gain; let's say for a beginner it's a weight gain of 0.25–0.5% of body weight/week. It's hard for many to achieve this precise range because your maintenance calories are changing all the time! And if you are an advanced lifter, then the rate of gain you want to target is even smaller: 0.1–0.25%/week. That's why pro natural bodybuilders use Macrocodex and find it useful.
ebiester 2mo ago
Mark Stache ( https://youtu.be/L-gNdQZorEE?si=nkwAhZOiAFtY2f44 https://youtu.be/L-gNdQZorEE?si=nkwAhZOiAFtY2f44 ) just did a 90 day evaluation. The biggest problem at the level they mention is some intense flatulence. He is also in good shape and had mixed results compared to the study.
adolfojp 2mo ago
I started taking resistant starch in the form of raw green banana powder after decades of undiagnosed digestive issues. I had been to doctors, gotten colonoscopies and endoscopies and other tests, elimination diets, etc. One week of this powder mixed with water and my ever present mild diarrhea is basically gone. It's as close to a miracle cure as I can imagine. However, I haven't lost a single pound or lost a single inch from my waistline. I have, however, gained muscle, because I can now work out more because I'm not constantly fatigued and my body can recover much faster so I'm lifting weights quite steadily. I'm so enthusiastic about this that I sound like a bot or a shill but it is what it is. It doesn't work as a bulking agent like psyllium husk did. I can vary the dose and take it with or without food on a full or an empty stomach and it still works making me think that it might be related to changes in microbiota. I apologize for too much info but I must add that the solidness and color and smell of my feces changed completely and that my digestive system has slowed digestion.

mapotofu 2mo ago

[flagged]

judge2020 2mo ago
"you people" > The study was conducted in Shanghai, China from 3 July 2013 to 14 October 2016 Figuring out and understanding the physiology of different gut bacteria is not just for people trying to shortcut weight loss while still eating unhealthy food or to be sedentary all day.
benatkin 2mo ago
Eh, the "real food" of Jamie Oliver and Michael Pollan (shop the peripheries) and such isn't very health promoting. So I'll pass and keep eating a mix of fresh food and cheap food that keeps for a long time like legumes. Kthxbai.
- qbit42 2mo ago
  Are legumes not "real food"?
  - benatkin 2mo ago
    To Michael Pollan it seems they aren't worth mentioning right in the first breath when talking about real food, but perhaps an afterthought. "Shop the peripheries" causes them to be lumped in with potato chips and oreos and other stuff that aren't in the peripheries of a supermarket. I don't accept the same real food dichotomy that they do.
    - mapotofu 2mo ago
      Beans are a direct product of plants. I don’t know what you are on about, but I’m sure even the celebrities you take so much stock in consider them “real food”, too. I wouldn’t know, because I have no idea what you’re ranting about.
      - benatkin 2mo ago
        They talk so much about freshness. That is an indirect and unnecessary and probably unintentional dig at dry beans, grains, seeds, nuts, etc. While I can entertain the idea that they're more reasonable in their diets this makes them bad nutrition communicators.

declan_roberts 2mo ago

I feel like I've heard this story 1 million times before.

judge2020 2mo ago

IMO my only concern is their dats shows they were actually able to maintain a pretty controlled diet for each participant, I wonder how selection was done. I also would've appreciated some bomb calorimetry of fecal samples, similar to [0] which is the widely cited paper that does link general fiber intake to a lower level of caloric/energy absorption. Baer, David J., et al. "Dietary fiber decreases the metabolizable energy content and nutrient digestibility of mixed diets fed to humans." The Journal of nutrition 127.4 (1997): 579-586.

paimapi 2mo ago

sample size n=37 of which recruitment only happened in Shanghai without any real control for confounders, only evaluated over a period of two weeks with no longterm follow-ups, the dosage of 40g RS/d is very high (would take about 4-5 large potatoes daily for equivalency or ingesting likely expensive supplement), the crossover compares RS vs CS in the same participants with only a 4 week washout which is a weakness since fermentable fiber persists >4 weeks, also the supplement they used was industry-provided by a starch manufacturer which was weirdly not disclosed this is a great study if you are an overweight/obese adult without overt metabolic disease, willing and able to consume 90 g/d of starch supplement within a controlled diet, and living in Shanghai with similar baseline fiber intakes endemic to that population. it is extremely not generalizeable to you or even me though I fit more of those characteristics than I care to admit stay skeptical of small studies like this, friend

lluisantoni 2mo ago
Also, the authors claim the starch "inhibited lipid absorption." They do not argue why they used surrogate blood biomarkers instead of residual energy output in fecal samples (which is a better measurement). sample size is 37, number of authors 29
dudisubekti 2mo ago
> not generalizable But there's already a general advise on this: eat more fiber. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2017/08/hunter-gatherers-seasonal-gut-microbe-diversity-loss.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2017/08/hunter-gather... We're a great ape, our body evolved to process a lot of fiber from fruits and starches. It's the modern fiber-deficient diet that's really weird. 90g/day of fiber is similar to the Hadza tribe diet, where they can consume 100-150g of fiber per day.
- iamacyborg 2mo ago
  Fiber’s the new fad supplement.
  - 2mo ago

faangguyindia 2mo ago

You can just go on a calorie deficit and it will reduce your visceral fat when you start getting lean enough. But obviously, most people are a lot more interested in finding a magic food which does this rather than a proven calorie deficit, which is highly effective.

cryptoegorophy 2mo ago
[flagged]
- faangguyindia 2mo ago
  Metabolism was an excuse when we could not reliably estimate it outside laboratory; today we can do that too, for completely free (we run a public benefit app for this). Method here: https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/rethink/adaptive-tdee/ https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/rethink/adaptive-tdee/ People can find the algorithm here: https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/macrocodex/smart-calorie-burn-v2/ https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/macrocodex/smart-calorie-bu... In fact, our claim on the app is results within 2-5 weeks for both weight gain and weight loss; I've yet to find a guy who did not achieve success with this. Calorie deficit is the most effective method for weight loss. What's funny is when people actually measure their metabolism with this approach, they realize they aren't far off from the average!
  - eru 2mo ago
    I'm not quite sure why or how estimating metabolism helps here? I mean, observing the weightloss / gain or lack thereof itself will tell you whether you need more of a calorie deficit or surplus. What does an independent metabolism estimate buy you?
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
    - faangguyindia 2mo ago
      macrocodex helps you figure out your "total calorie burn in 24 hours." How difficult is it? Just eat below the orange line to lose weight and eat above the orange line to gain weight: https://macrocodex.app/assets/hero-tdee-line.v3.1b8c60c2271f.png https://macrocodex.app/assets/hero-tdee-line.v3.1b8c60c2271f... In the image, you see the app continuously updates maintenance calories from observed evidence; on the homescreen, it provides the calorie and macro targets you need to follow: https://macrocodex.app/assets/flow-targets.v3.edc3f34458a1.png https://macrocodex.app/assets/flow-targets.v3.edc3f34458a1.p... It was never this easy, imho. Many people used TDEE calculators in past, which suffer from the limitation described here: https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/rethink/adaptive-tdee/#tdee-calculators-and-chatgpt https://macrocodex.app/knowledge/rethink/adaptive-tdee/#tdee... It's useful for both Newbies and Pros. When a person figures out their maintenance calories and looks for the average metabolic rate / maintenance calories for their height, weight, and gender, they realize they are not "genetically inferior" or have some serious issue which is stopping them from progressing if their maintenance calories are within average range! Just knowing that there is nothing wrong with your metabolism gives people enough push to continuously walk on this path and achieve their goal. >I mean, observing the weightloss / gain or lack thereof itself will tell you whether you need more of a calorie deficit or surplus. You can read app reviews and these will tell you, complete newbies are having great success with this approach. If you ask a layman on the street, they'll tell you eat less to lose weight, eat more to gain weight. The question is: what is less, and what is more? How many calories precisely do we need to eat to achieve 1lb per week of weight loss? Your total calorie burn for the day changes week to week; people don't know how to make the right adjustments. Many people crash diet; they lose weight, then they cannot sustain it for long, binge eat, and gain it all back. What key knowledge are they missing? Sustainable deficit. If you apply a sustainable deficit over a longer period of time, you may not "suffer" as much as you would otherwise I am not saying drastic deficits are not useful; they are to those who are experienced. Let's say an MMA guy or bodybuilder can do it just fine! Also, for lean bulking in natural bodybuilding, you need a specific rate of weight gain; let's say for a beginner it's a weight gain of 0.25–0.5% of body weight/week. It's hard for many to achieve this precise range because your maintenance calories are changing all the time! And if you are an advanced lifter, then the rate of gain you want to target is even smaller: 0.1–0.25%/week. That's why pro natural bodybuilders use Macrocodex and find it useful.

ebiester 2mo ago

Mark Stache ( https://youtu.be/L-gNdQZorEE?si=nkwAhZOiAFtY2f44 https://youtu.be/L-gNdQZorEE?si=nkwAhZOiAFtY2f44 ) just did a 90 day evaluation. The biggest problem at the level they mention is some intense flatulence. He is also in good shape and had mixed results compared to the study.

adolfojp 2mo ago

I started taking resistant starch in the form of raw green banana powder after decades of undiagnosed digestive issues. I had been to doctors, gotten colonoscopies and endoscopies and other tests, elimination diets, etc. One week of this powder mixed with water and my ever present mild diarrhea is basically gone. It's as close to a miracle cure as I can imagine. However, I haven't lost a single pound or lost a single inch from my waistline. I have, however, gained muscle, because I can now work out more because I'm not constantly fatigued and my body can recover much faster so I'm lifting weights quite steadily. I'm so enthusiastic about this that I sound like a bot or a shill but it is what it is. It doesn't work as a bulking agent like psyllium husk did. I can vary the dose and take it with or without food on a full or an empty stomach and it still works making me think that it might be related to changes in microbiota. I apologize for too much info but I must add that the solidness and color and smell of my feces changed completely and that my digestive system has slowed digestion.