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Eclipse: The Xiaomi 17 Ultra Confuses the Moon and the Sun
- swiftcoder 2mo agoIt remains incredibly funny that they never turned off this "fake moon" feature after being caught the first time
- thehamkercat 2mo agoI think you're confusing them with samsung who was caught in 2023 for this https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moon-photos-ai-galaxy-s21-s23-ultra https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moo...
- swiftcoder 2mo agoYou are right, but I think my point stands - anyone getting caught for this ought to make the others think twice
- dTal 2mo agoI don't think it's intentional. This behavior is a straightforward consequence of training something on pairs of "real" and "degraded" images. It learns what images look like and does the best it can. Philosophically, replacing the moon with a better moon is no different than any other computational photography technique that uses world knowledge, like reducing red eye from flash by detecting faces, or enhancing blurry text using knowledge of the alphabet. The problem is philosophical - people are upset by certain types of enhancement error, but not others, and they can't even articulate the difference to themselves, let alone to an AI.
- pjc50 2mo ago> people are upset by certain types of enhancement error, but not others, and they can't even articulate the difference to themselves People are upset by enhancement errors that produce an image that is meaningfully different from the "true image". Replacing the sun with the moon or replacing the letters with different letters (e.g. https://www.dkriesel.com/en/blog/2013/0802_xerox-workcentres_are_switching_written_numbers_when_scanning https://www.dkriesel.com/en/blog/2013/0802_xerox-workcentres... ). The philosophical problem here is that you can't get at the true image, you can only imagine ideas like "what the human originally taking the photo saw with their naked eye".
- dTal 2mo agoWhat constitutes a "meaningful" difference? If you replace flash-induced red eyes with a more plausible (yet inaccurate) eye color, people are perfectly happy with that, even though the camera indeed saw red photons. They're not happy if you run the exact same algorithm on a photo of someone with genuinely red eyes. It's not always about the "true photons" - the cause of the red eye is relevant, and so is the intent of taking the photo. "what the human originally taking the photo saw with their naked eye" is a tempting standard, but a misleading one - there might not be a human eye near the camera at all, and at any rate there certainly isn't one co-located with the focal point. And shall we have cameras that render only a few degrees of high resolution color, and have a large-ish blind spot? It's what the human eye sees.
- mcphage 2mo ago> What constitutes a "meaningful" difference? Well, replacing the sun with the moon constitutes a meaningful difference. Let’s start there and work our way down.
- ben_w 2mo ago> If you replace flash-induced red eyes with a more plausible (yet inaccurate) eye color, people are perfectly happy with that, even though the camera indeed saw red photons. I believe this is already covered by: what the human originally taking the photo saw with their naked eye Camera saw red, you didn't. When there's no human nearby, people may not know what the truth ever was, but we'd like to pretend that someone might have. Well, usually. I have yet to see anyone complain about astronomical photos using false colours, for example, but this may be because astronomy nerds understand the "why". Blind spots are indeed our brains filling in the blanks, however we mostly avoid this (and foveation limitations) with saccades; on the other hand, part of stage magic is to manipulate us into looking in the wrong place, and if you're using the same tools without the audience knowing they're getting fooled it's seen as at least a bit antisocial.
- fragmede 2mo agoSwiftcoder can't possibly be expected to keep track of the difference between two Asian companies. They all look the same!
- inigyou 2mo agoBecause nobody cares. We live in a post-truth era.
- mugiseyebrows 2mo agothey will probably just add a condition into code to temporary disable it during eclipses
- Markoff 2mo agonobody forces you to keep AI Camera switched on, I disable it as one of the first things when opening camera on Xiaomi phone first time, just swipe up from top and tap on AI Camera and you are done, I don't speak French so would be really interested how was their Xiaomi phone set, but I would bet my money they had AI Camera (and possible also Super Moon) enabled
- IvanK_net 2mo agoIn the future, it might be extremely hard to find a camera which records exactly what is in front of it :D
- BlackRabbit1 2mo agoA lot of smartphones support raw format. It's fascinating to see how much post-processing gets done.
- PlunderBunny 2mo agoThere was a post on HN a few months ago showing the stages of post-processing on a photo of a Christmas tree in a room - the original photo was unrecognisable. I would find the link, but I’m balancing my phone on my knee while trying to eat dinner and pretend I’m not playing with my phone while eating dinner…
- yoavm 2mo agoIt's this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46415225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46415225
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- Retr0id 2mo agoOften the "RAW" output is still DSP'd, just less (e.g. only debayering + noise reduction).
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- Alexander-Barth 2mo agoI am wondering if the AI enhancement should be opt-in rather than the default and saving the original as well. Even if you want AI enhancement, future models are likely to be better.
- Alexander-Barth 2mo agoInterestingly, one of their AI filters is actually called "Super Moon": 4.14.3 Camera Image Optimization The camera image optimization AI algorithm is mainly used in the following camera features: Super Moon, AI Camera, Document Mode, Front Portrait Mode with Background Blurring, and Beautify. https://trust.mi.com/docs/miui-privacy-white-paper-global/4/14 https://trust.mi.com/docs/miui-privacy-white-paper-global/4/...
- ionwake 2mo agoI still struggle with the idea that the chinese olympics had both CGI fireworks and real firework footage mixed together. I cant fathom how this was a "if they know it doesnt matter at all" situation. A complete acceptance of real / fake, who cares its about stuff looking great. I mean I can be told it but I cant understand why you would waste millions on real works just to have fake ones, why not just go all fake? If its a half way house then does no one care what is real? IE on linkedin somany AI videos with thousands of comments and likes and I become lost on ... do most poeple just not care if its real or not? I dont think they do at all. Am I mad to care? Its very easy to say well everyone uses filters and they are not real. And its true! But somewhere and I have no idea where, there seems tobe a line for me where I say no, thats not cricket, you cant just replace part of an image with a template of something else. I have no idea tho any thoughts appreciated.
- xattt 2mo agoDoes it come from a cultural mindset, or are people from China just as confused?
- Gigachad 2mo agoFrom what I have seen, the attitude towards AI in China is entirely different. The population largely believes it's a positive technology that will help improve their lives. While in America there is a seething hatred towards AI where people believe the benefits will all go to the billionaires while they are put out of a job. If you look at the way Chinese AI companies act compared to American ones, it's easy to see how people feel this way.
- pjc50 2mo agoThe crucial difference: in China, if a billionare might become more powerful than the government, they get disappeared and re-educated: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56448688 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56448688
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- Taniwha 2mo agoI wonder if it gets the moon the right way up in the southern hemisphere
- yokoprime 2mo agoi would not underestimate the tomfoolery Xiaomi is doing to give the impression their phone can take a zoomed in photo of the moon. It's pretty tasteless in my opinion
- esperent 2mo agoI got some amazing photos through a set of eclipse viewing glasses on my Vivo x300 pro. If I'd been a bit more organized and set up a stand and taped the glasses onto the phone I think I could have taken a video of the whole thing in incredible quality. But I just held the glasses in front of the lens and it worked. What I found though was that I had to use the pro mode (which I use for basically everything anyway, to avoid exactly the kind of issues this article is talking about). I did try on normal photo mode and I think what was happening was that as soon as I covered one lens with the glasses it switched to another.
- mugiseyebrows 2mo agothe title should be "lies, damn lies, and photo enhancements"
- kleiba2 2mo agoLiving in a post-factual world.
- ndsipa_pomu 2mo agoThat's no moon
- classified 2mo agoGreat, the sun has moon craters now. GenAI at its best.