4 ms·

I’ve worked on both sides, so I know they’re actually very different. As a manager, the first thing you do is get to know your people. Some of them will be ver

by 361994752 2mo ago

I’ve worked on both sides, so I know they’re actually very different. As a manager, the first thing you do is get to know your people. Some of them will be very strong and trustworthy. You give them the hardest work, and you ask them the least. That’s how you scale your team’s scope without getting overburdened. And that’s why teams have key people. But when you work with LLMs, you still need to understand most of the ideas yourself if it’s a serious product. Because in the end, it means nothing to “trust” an agent. You’re the one responsible for what you and the LLM ship.

bmurphy1976 2mo ago
This doesn't change the fact that those soft skills are necessary to use LLMs effectively. You need a mixture of hard and soft skills. Engineers who have avoided learning the soft skills are going to have a harder time adjusting.
- Terr_ 2mo ago
  > those soft skills They may be softer, but they're really not an identical set of soft-skills. To illustrate the difference, imagine: "Hey, you've got all those soft-skills from tweaking the AI stuff, right? I need you to motivate Bob to get his head back in the game, but without causing him to resign."
- galaxyLogic 2mo ago
  But if you are managing AI agents you dont' need "soft skills" do you? You don't need to be especially nice to the AI, or symphatize with it, or have fun with it to build trust, I would imagine that managing a team of AI-agents is totally different from managing a team of people.
  - chasd00 2mo ago
    > But if you are managing AI agents you dont' need "soft skills" do you? “Soft skills” in management just means figuring out how to get what you want from the people you have available to you. In that respect those skills translate to using an LLM.
    - galaxyLogic 2mo ago
      Figuring out how to get what you want from people would seem to me to be a very different skill than figuring out how to get what you want from AI agents. For instance, how do you motivate people to work long hours, put in extra effort, feel proud of their work? How would you do that with AI?
  - theshrike79 2mo ago
    Soft skills isn't just about being nice. It's about knowing the capabilities of people, what can they do, what do they excel at and where they need support. The exact same applies to LLMs, each of them have their own very distinctive styles as well as strengths and weaknesses. Just like human engineers, LLMs can't just be plugged in to the same role as the previous one with the same instructions and expect the same results. Thus: soft skills.
- t_mahmood 2mo ago
  LLM doesn't need soft skills, but just knowing how to write a prompt to get the correct percentage values in a RAG and get the result close to your expectations out. Well it might be different based on the training data, which ai company, and how much you're paying. People are different, they will be sometime affected by their emotional situation, surrounding, no matter how much they're being paid, You need to understand their mental situation, did he got scolded by the upper management today? He might not be on his best of his capacity right now. Or they might've pulled an all nighter and really not in their best position. If someone going to treat people like an LLM, definitely is not going to have good time
  - derangedHorse 2mo ago
    Ironically, the same applies to AI. We seem to get demonstrably better results when speaking to models encouragingly [1]. It's a lot easier to re-establish goodwill when you can clear the memory and context of a program vs. a human though. [1] https://x.com/MTSlive/status/2086884672106299878 https://x.com/MTSlive/status/2086884672106299878
    - t_mahmood 2mo ago
      We don't know if it's all marketing stunts, or real, do we now? > It's a lot easier to re-establish goodwill when you can clear the memory and context of a program vs. a human though. That's the point. You can't erase human memories, experiences, (unless you bonk their head hard enough according to movies in my subcontinent, another bonk might reverse too) which will definitely affect their decisions and results.
- js8 2mo ago
  Talking to an LLM is not a skill, just like using Google is not a skill. Why? One, the companies like Google or Anthropic or OpenAI are working hard for it not to be a skill. That's the whole point. Second, these system are opaque, so there is no understanding to happen, only superstition, which might be wrong or change tomorrow.
  - jfyi 2mo ago
    I disagree, both of those are skills. Neither are skills that a large portion of users of those services pursue to any meaningful extent, I'll grant you that. They also certainly are not synonymous with the term "soft skills" as I know it. So I think I am on your side of the fence on that part any way.
    - js8 2mo ago
      I feel like if they were skills under a reasonable definition, you should be able to name an expert in these skills, and how do we know they are an expert. But I think you can't. It seems to me, instead, one is better at googling/prompting the better they are in a particular domain, but it only applies in that domain. Like knowing a jargon is not a skill, knowing the domain is.
      - andsoitis 2mo ago
        Soft skills include: handling change under ambiguity, critical thinking under pressure, self-awareness, prioritizing, motivating and guiding others without relying on authority, navigating disagreement constructively.
      - jfyi 2mo ago
        Johnny Long is the godfather of google dorking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo1BR9itwOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo1BR9itwOY https://blackhat.com/presentations/bh-usa-05/bh-us-05-long.pdf https://blackhat.com/presentations/bh-usa-05/bh-us-05-long.p... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_Security
      - 2mo ago
- jfyi 2mo ago
  I don't think soft skills describes it in the traditional sense. The skillset largely needed with LLMs is more akin to being an editor or qa tester. I suppose you could describe having the modesty to admit to yourself when you don't understand and research something deeper could be described as a soft skill, but I'd say it's a stretch. You are dealing with yourself in that scenario, not others.
- sscaryterry 2mo ago
  > avoided learning the soft skills LLMs don't have emotions?
taneq 2mo ago
You’re still responsible for what you and the team ship if the team is human. Trusting your people just means you’re willing to take the fall if they mess up.
- 361994752 2mo ago
  Yes. That is what trust means. And being able to trust the right folks makes a good manager.
  - simianwords 2mo ago
    And being able to trust the agent when you can makes a good engineer
    - modo_mario 2mo ago
      I think a good engineer still reads the majority of what llm's put out for him and understands it so trust doesn't really come into the picture.
      - simianwords 2mo ago
        no a good engineer doesn't have to read majority what LLM put out - its not the most efficient.
      - keeda 2mo ago
        Actually, I would say trust is an intrinsic part of an engineer's job, because the job is to deliver something that can be trusted to do what it says on the tin. For software engineering, you're perfectly right that reading the code is one way to build that trust. But the industry has evolved many other methods, and I think those (and new methods based on those) will become more and more important in the future.

bmurphy1976 2mo ago

This doesn't change the fact that those soft skills are necessary to use LLMs effectively. You need a mixture of hard and soft skills. Engineers who have avoided learning the soft skills are going to have a harder time adjusting.

Terr_ 2mo ago
> those soft skills They may be softer, but they're really not an identical set of soft-skills. To illustrate the difference, imagine: "Hey, you've got all those soft-skills from tweaking the AI stuff, right? I need you to motivate Bob to get his head back in the game, but without causing him to resign."
galaxyLogic 2mo ago
But if you are managing AI agents you dont' need "soft skills" do you? You don't need to be especially nice to the AI, or symphatize with it, or have fun with it to build trust, I would imagine that managing a team of AI-agents is totally different from managing a team of people.
- chasd00 2mo ago
  > But if you are managing AI agents you dont' need "soft skills" do you? “Soft skills” in management just means figuring out how to get what you want from the people you have available to you. In that respect those skills translate to using an LLM.
  - galaxyLogic 2mo ago
    Figuring out how to get what you want from people would seem to me to be a very different skill than figuring out how to get what you want from AI agents. For instance, how do you motivate people to work long hours, put in extra effort, feel proud of their work? How would you do that with AI?
- theshrike79 2mo ago
  Soft skills isn't just about being nice. It's about knowing the capabilities of people, what can they do, what do they excel at and where they need support. The exact same applies to LLMs, each of them have their own very distinctive styles as well as strengths and weaknesses. Just like human engineers, LLMs can't just be plugged in to the same role as the previous one with the same instructions and expect the same results. Thus: soft skills.
t_mahmood 2mo ago
LLM doesn't need soft skills, but just knowing how to write a prompt to get the correct percentage values in a RAG and get the result close to your expectations out. Well it might be different based on the training data, which ai company, and how much you're paying. People are different, they will be sometime affected by their emotional situation, surrounding, no matter how much they're being paid, You need to understand their mental situation, did he got scolded by the upper management today? He might not be on his best of his capacity right now. Or they might've pulled an all nighter and really not in their best position. If someone going to treat people like an LLM, definitely is not going to have good time
- derangedHorse 2mo ago
  Ironically, the same applies to AI. We seem to get demonstrably better results when speaking to models encouragingly [1]. It's a lot easier to re-establish goodwill when you can clear the memory and context of a program vs. a human though. [1] https://x.com/MTSlive/status/2086884672106299878 https://x.com/MTSlive/status/2086884672106299878
  - t_mahmood 2mo ago
    We don't know if it's all marketing stunts, or real, do we now? > It's a lot easier to re-establish goodwill when you can clear the memory and context of a program vs. a human though. That's the point. You can't erase human memories, experiences, (unless you bonk their head hard enough according to movies in my subcontinent, another bonk might reverse too) which will definitely affect their decisions and results.
js8 2mo ago
Talking to an LLM is not a skill, just like using Google is not a skill. Why? One, the companies like Google or Anthropic or OpenAI are working hard for it not to be a skill. That's the whole point. Second, these system are opaque, so there is no understanding to happen, only superstition, which might be wrong or change tomorrow.
- jfyi 2mo ago
  I disagree, both of those are skills. Neither are skills that a large portion of users of those services pursue to any meaningful extent, I'll grant you that. They also certainly are not synonymous with the term "soft skills" as I know it. So I think I am on your side of the fence on that part any way.
  - js8 2mo ago
    I feel like if they were skills under a reasonable definition, you should be able to name an expert in these skills, and how do we know they are an expert. But I think you can't. It seems to me, instead, one is better at googling/prompting the better they are in a particular domain, but it only applies in that domain. Like knowing a jargon is not a skill, knowing the domain is.
    - andsoitis 2mo ago
      Soft skills include: handling change under ambiguity, critical thinking under pressure, self-awareness, prioritizing, motivating and guiding others without relying on authority, navigating disagreement constructively.
    - jfyi 2mo ago
      Johnny Long is the godfather of google dorking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo1BR9itwOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo1BR9itwOY https://blackhat.com/presentations/bh-usa-05/bh-us-05-long.pdf https://blackhat.com/presentations/bh-usa-05/bh-us-05-long.p... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_Security
    - 2mo ago
jfyi 2mo ago
I don't think soft skills describes it in the traditional sense. The skillset largely needed with LLMs is more akin to being an editor or qa tester. I suppose you could describe having the modesty to admit to yourself when you don't understand and research something deeper could be described as a soft skill, but I'd say it's a stretch. You are dealing with yourself in that scenario, not others.
sscaryterry 2mo ago
> avoided learning the soft skills LLMs don't have emotions?

taneq 2mo ago

You’re still responsible for what you and the team ship if the team is human. Trusting your people just means you’re willing to take the fall if they mess up.

361994752 2mo ago
Yes. That is what trust means. And being able to trust the right folks makes a good manager.
- simianwords 2mo ago
  And being able to trust the agent when you can makes a good engineer
  - modo_mario 2mo ago
    I think a good engineer still reads the majority of what llm's put out for him and understands it so trust doesn't really come into the picture.
    - simianwords 2mo ago
      no a good engineer doesn't have to read majority what LLM put out - its not the most efficient.
    - keeda 2mo ago
      Actually, I would say trust is an intrinsic part of an engineer's job, because the job is to deliver something that can be trusted to do what it says on the tin. For software engineering, you're perfectly right that reading the code is one way to build that trust. But the industry has evolved many other methods, and I think those (and new methods based on those) will become more and more important in the future.