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The oceans are depleted. And some countries with shadow fleets are to blame more than the others. But somehow it’s not even a small priority for most countries.
by darth_avocado 2mo ago
The oceans are depleted. And some countries with shadow fleets are to blame more than the others. But somehow it’s not even a small priority for most countries. Whales are dying because they are malnourished and that is an indicator that there’s barely anything left. The idea that international waters are available for anyone and everyone to exploit is just wild.
- amanaplanacanal 2mo agoThe tragedy of the commons, on a planetary scale.
- dredmorbius 2mo agoHardin's original essay addressed just that. <https://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_tragedy_of_the_commons.html https://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_tragedy_of...>
- jimbob45 2mo agoThere’s really no cause to raise a panic with lab-grown meat right around the corner. AI, FSD, electric cars, nuclear energy, and drones are eating up most of the VC money right now but lab-grown meat is waiting in the wings to take over in the next few decades.
- doy3n 2mo agoI had to make an account to tell you to look again; lab-grown meat isn't at all a given or even a good alternative. 98% reduction in biomass in twenty years isn't a cause for alarm?
- edoceo 2mo agoWhy lab meat? Plants are right here now, require very little electricity, the sun is free, they can't run away, many can be eaten with very little preparation. It's both cheap and easy.
- energy123 2mo agoBecause not everyone shares your preference and/or discipline for plants. Lab grown meat doesn't require a planetary scale realignment of moral values and habits.
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- soulofmischief 2mo agoSome might argue that ignorance or apathy doesn't reduce someone's participation as a consumer in a very inhumane and climate-wrecking meat industry down to simply "preference". I do agree it's unrealistic to expect 8 billion people to change their habits overnight, but we are going to see a massive prisoner's dilemma as resources dwindle until that 8 billion number starts falling.
- energy123 2mo agoThat's a moral judgement about what words to use that has no bearing on causality. Incentives are never a valid justification but they are almost always an explanation. We should care about explanations when trying to solve problems.
- soulofmischief 2mo agoI agree, designing institutions around incentives is key. But the discussion around factory farms can shaped around ethics and not morals, and I had taken the opportunity to point out that "preference" reads as unwarranted euphemism in the face of the brutality of modern factory farming, and downplays the agency of the individual as a participant. Past that, we are in full agreement that it's more fruitful to solve the problem rather than sit around making judgements.
- account42 2mo ago> Lab grown meat doesn't require a planetary scale realignment of moral values and habits. It absolutely does until it's actually something normal people call "meat" which is still a long long way off.
- efskap 2mo ago"Lab" grown meat of the aquatic variety has been around for eons in the form of mussels and other bivalves. No central nervous system to suffer, similar nutritional profile that fills in plant-based gaps, extracts nutrients from the water instead of polluting it, and grown on ropes. However the concern here is not just finding something tasty for humans to eat.
- pjc50 2mo agoPeople aren't going to stop catching and eating fish until it is legislated against, globally.
- BrtByte 2mo agoYeah, the enforcement problem seems almost absurd compared to the scale of the ocean
- Lio 2mo agoWhich countries are using shadow fleets?
- JimmyBiscuit 2mo agoChina, North Korea, Russia
- crvdgc 2mo agoIn Morocco?
- 0123456789ABCDE 2mo agoyou're hung up on "The problem is especially severe in Morocco[…]" but the thread has moved on since the root comment where the author starts with: "The oceans are depleted."
- throwaway2037 2mo ago> some countries with shadow fleets I never saw this term used for fishing boats. Do you have any countries in mind? And what exactly is "shadow"? > Whales are dying because they are malnourished and that is an indicator that there’s barely anything left. I assume you are talking about the recent deaths of Pacific Gray whales.[1] They are dying because climate change has depleted their primary food source in the Arctic. They are not dying due to overfishing by humans. [1] https://insideclimatenews.org/news/24052026/pacific-gray-whales-threatened-by-warming-waters/ https://insideclimatenews.org/news/24052026/pacific-gray-wha...
- jazzyjackson 2mo agoShadow fleet is anyone without a transponder reporting their location
- gadders 2mo agoIt's always China: https://www.reuters.com/graphics/CHINA-ARGENTINA/FISHING/gkplkejbqvb/ https://www.reuters.com/graphics/CHINA-ARGENTINA/FISHING/gkp...
- throwaway2037 2mo agoAs long as they are 200 nautical miles offshore, then it is fair game. That Reuters article reads like: "China did something; it must be bad."
- gadders 2mo agoThey're normally called a shadow fleet because they turn off their transponders when they head into territorial waters.
- darth_avocado 2mo agoFirst of all, just because something is legal, doesn’t mean it’s good. But more importantly, specifically Chinese fishing vessels aren’t exactly innocent either. They go dark to go and fish in waters where fishing isn’t allowed including eco sensitive zones. Part of the problem with the dark fleet is “how much they fish”. Claiming 200 vessels are fishing while allowing 1000 vessels will obviously lead to overfishing. Then there is the whole “illegal fishing” including but not limited to hunting sharks and other endangered species, using banned fishing practices, threatening local fishermen across the coast of Africa to corner parts of the fishing grounds etc. All of this is well documented. So it’s not about China bad, it’s about them skirting the rules.