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Why should I feel stalked and harassed by the cameras though? I didn’t feel bothered at all by cameras in NYC. I didn’t feel bothered in Singapore. I drove abou

Why should I feel stalked and harassed by the cameras though? I didn’t feel bothered at all by cameras in NYC. I didn’t feel bothered in Singapore. I drove about 12 hours over the last couple of days and didn’t feel bothered by the numerous cameras along the interstate. I would certainly feel different if followed by an actual human for sure, but cameras give me no reaction honestly. Is it the AI? If so, why does it matter if it’s AI vs paying a team to manually track your movements on these cameras? Seems hugely inefficient.

Walf 2mo ago
Perhaps you'll feel differently if you, or someone you care about, happen to be one of the lucky future misidentifications.
- veec_cas_tant 2mo ago
  Certainly would be upset, just like if I were misidentified by a human reading the plate number? Of course, I don’t see how it’s relevant though. I would expect at least some human review at some level, for sure! On the other hand, I have experienced a violent mugging on my street where neither my camera, nor any of my neighbors cameras, worked well enough in low light to identify the plates at all. Car pulled up, passenger jumped out and attacked two older ladies. There are plenty of cases just like this, where video evidence is lacking and would make all of the difference, that I personally feel vastly outweigh potential plate reading issues.
  - Walf 2mo ago
    I think that's conflation. Having high visibility of an area so that cameras can be consulted for evidence can be, as you attest, a good thing. Being tracked over an indeterminate length of time, profiled, and maybe one day punished for thoughtcrime, is a very different beast. And if you think thoughtcrime is far-fetched or paranoid, you aren't paying attention. Governments around the world are moving to crush dissent by limiting gatherings for protest, labelling/charging people as terrorists without having committed any terrorist acts, etc. What makes you think anyone will ever be able to organise against oppression, even if the cause is just, when one is treated as guilty without committing any crime?
    - veec_cas_tant 2mo ago
      Absolutely against using any sort of law enforcement powers for those purposes. I am against thought crime and support all sorts of wide ranging freedoms. We just disagree on if the possibility for misuse outweighs very real and powerful uses.
unclebucknasty 2mo ago
>I would certainly feel different if followed by an actual human Why would this bother you? Because of the prospect of physical harm, or the idea that they are watching you/invading your privacy?
- veec_cas_tant 2mo ago
  Mostly due to the antisocial behavior described. I would not feel at all worried if someone walking on the same sidewalk as me was recording their child with me in the frame. Someone following me and jotting down notes is very strange behavior, at least for someone like me without celebrity. Stripping this down a bit: would I be fine with a very friendly camera crew documenting everything I do outside in public? No, I wouldn’t like that for privacy reasons. I also wouldn’t like government cameras publicly searchable, and wouldn’t like my phone location publicly searchable, but do not mind law enforcement having access when necessary. It’s a good thought experiment though, and maybe exposes hypocrisy in my view? Not entirely sure.
  - Godsend69 2mo ago
    [dead]
  - King-Aaron 2mo ago
    You are intentionally trying to argue that your feeling of personal safety outweighs the privacy violations that are being discussed. There is the classic quote, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." But to frame it in analogies as you are doing, it is not "a person following you". It is every person following you, at all times. A police officer, your local shop manager who is setting the prices of your groceries, your car insurer, your home insurer, your health insurer. The IRS (etc) agent assigned to you. Me, too. I'm following you, your wife, your children. You don't know me but here I am anyway taking pictures and then selling them to the user above you. Also my bank who sold me a credit card is now also following you. As well as the criminals that want to steal that credit card. Also that criminals kid, who's just curious. There's also a large man in a hat following you. As well as the person who is going to sell you your next car, they're following you too. All these entities, and more, are following you. Carving you up as a product to sell and exploit. And to you, you don't mind because you aren't aware. In the same way that a cow in a pen doesn't mind and isn't aware that an enormous system of industry is raising it to be carved up as a product to sell and exploit.

Walf 2mo ago

Perhaps you'll feel differently if you, or someone you care about, happen to be one of the lucky future misidentifications.

veec_cas_tant 2mo ago
Certainly would be upset, just like if I were misidentified by a human reading the plate number? Of course, I don’t see how it’s relevant though. I would expect at least some human review at some level, for sure! On the other hand, I have experienced a violent mugging on my street where neither my camera, nor any of my neighbors cameras, worked well enough in low light to identify the plates at all. Car pulled up, passenger jumped out and attacked two older ladies. There are plenty of cases just like this, where video evidence is lacking and would make all of the difference, that I personally feel vastly outweigh potential plate reading issues.
- Walf 2mo ago
  I think that's conflation. Having high visibility of an area so that cameras can be consulted for evidence can be, as you attest, a good thing. Being tracked over an indeterminate length of time, profiled, and maybe one day punished for thoughtcrime, is a very different beast. And if you think thoughtcrime is far-fetched or paranoid, you aren't paying attention. Governments around the world are moving to crush dissent by limiting gatherings for protest, labelling/charging people as terrorists without having committed any terrorist acts, etc. What makes you think anyone will ever be able to organise against oppression, even if the cause is just, when one is treated as guilty without committing any crime?
  - veec_cas_tant 2mo ago
    Absolutely against using any sort of law enforcement powers for those purposes. I am against thought crime and support all sorts of wide ranging freedoms. We just disagree on if the possibility for misuse outweighs very real and powerful uses.

unclebucknasty 2mo ago

>I would certainly feel different if followed by an actual human Why would this bother you? Because of the prospect of physical harm, or the idea that they are watching you/invading your privacy?

veec_cas_tant 2mo ago
Mostly due to the antisocial behavior described. I would not feel at all worried if someone walking on the same sidewalk as me was recording their child with me in the frame. Someone following me and jotting down notes is very strange behavior, at least for someone like me without celebrity. Stripping this down a bit: would I be fine with a very friendly camera crew documenting everything I do outside in public? No, I wouldn’t like that for privacy reasons. I also wouldn’t like government cameras publicly searchable, and wouldn’t like my phone location publicly searchable, but do not mind law enforcement having access when necessary. It’s a good thought experiment though, and maybe exposes hypocrisy in my view? Not entirely sure.
- Godsend69 2mo ago
  [dead]
- King-Aaron 2mo ago
  You are intentionally trying to argue that your feeling of personal safety outweighs the privacy violations that are being discussed. There is the classic quote, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." But to frame it in analogies as you are doing, it is not "a person following you". It is every person following you, at all times. A police officer, your local shop manager who is setting the prices of your groceries, your car insurer, your home insurer, your health insurer. The IRS (etc) agent assigned to you. Me, too. I'm following you, your wife, your children. You don't know me but here I am anyway taking pictures and then selling them to the user above you. Also my bank who sold me a credit card is now also following you. As well as the criminals that want to steal that credit card. Also that criminals kid, who's just curious. There's also a large man in a hat following you. As well as the person who is going to sell you your next car, they're following you too. All these entities, and more, are following you. Carving you up as a product to sell and exploit. And to you, you don't mind because you aren't aware. In the same way that a cow in a pen doesn't mind and isn't aware that an enormous system of industry is raising it to be carved up as a product to sell and exploit.