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1. So you'd agree that AI datecenter with 100 (or whatever) jet turbines merely "lacks a permit" rather than "not supposed to be there"? 2. Practically speakin

by gruez 2mo ago

1. So you'd agree that AI datecenter with 100 (or whatever) jet turbines merely "lacks a permit" rather than "not supposed to be there"? 2. Practically speaking, how many people lack a work visa (or similar documentation), but are supposed to be here?

BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago
Anecdotally speaking, I've personally lived in multiple countries on multi-year-long temporary resident visas without the right to work, because getting the right to work is a separate process from being allowed to be somewhere. So have family members. And in case it makes a difference, which it might, one of those countries was the US. In fact, did you know, in Canada it doesn't count as work for visa purposes if you work over the internet for a foreign company and get paid into a foreign bank account and don't compete professionally with local interests? (This is a free hot tip for anyone wanting to live in Canada. It might be true in some other places too, but I don't know.)
- gruez 2mo ago
  >Anecdotally speaking, I've personally lived in multiple countries on multi-year-long temporary resident visas without the right to work, because getting the right to work is a separate process from being allowed to be somewhere. So have family members. And in case it makes a difference, which it might, one of those countries was the US. Usually those long term visas (eg. student visas, I guess) require some sort of extra vetting to acquire (ie. they're not the tourist visas that get auto-issued at the border), and therefore are unlikely to be possessed by "people who aren't supposed to be here", so as a practical matter I agree they should be accepted in place of a "work visa".
- triceratops 2mo ago
  > in Canada it doesn't count as work for visa purposes if you work over the internet for a foreign company and get paid into a foreign bank account and don't compete professionally with local interests? Source? If you can do that, a Canadian could too. So you're directly competing with "local interests".
  - BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago
    > Source? See e.g. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/temporary-residents/foreign-workers/what-is-work.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/co... What kind of activities are not considered to be “work”? ... long distance (by telephone or Internet) work done by a temporary resident whose employer is outside Canada and who is remunerated from outside Canada; Also: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/section-186.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227... A foreign national may work in Canada without a work permit (a) as a business visitor to Canada within the meaning of section 187; Which directs us to https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/section-187.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227... 187 (1) For the purposes of paragraph 186(a), a business visitor to Canada is a foreign national who ... seeks to engage in international business activities in Canada without directly entering the Canadian labour market. ... (3) For the purpose of subsection (1), a foreign national seeks to engage in international business activities in Canada without directly entering the Canadian labour market only if (a) the primary source of remuneration for the business activities is outside Canada; and (b) the principal place of business and actual place of accrual of profits remain predominately outside Canada. > If you can do that, a Canadian could too. So you're directly competing with "local interests". You may send your letter of complaint to the Government of Canada's department of Immigration, Refugees, and Citizenship. I'm kidding. :) I guess the interests to which you're referring are just tautologically not the interests I meant. Apologies for the confusion.
    - triceratops 2mo ago
      Fascinating!
      - BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago
        Right?!
count 2mo ago
Spouses of folks on many kinds of visa are allowed to be here, but aren't allowed to work.
- gruez 2mo ago
  So why would anyone give a loan to someone who can't legally work? If it's really spouse that's the sole earner, why not have the spouse take out the loan?
  - BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago
    Ability to work in a particular place and ability to repay a loan are not the same thing: 1) People get loans against assets literally all the time. 2) People can live and work in different places.
    - gruez 2mo ago
      >1) People get loans against assets literally all the time. Typically in these cases, there's actually a source of income. You have to pay back the loan, after all. Otherwise I struggle to imagine why anyone without income but with plenty of assets would take out a loan, and having such documentation requirements would greatly inconvenience them. All this feels like a fig leaf for allowing workers lacking work visas to live and work in the US, while turning a blind eye. >2) People can live and work in different places. Again, is this something that actually happens, or is it just a contrived scenario? Is there really a large contingent of people working Mexico and then commuting back and forth to the US? They can't get a loan in Mexico?
      - BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago
        > "Typically in these cases, there's actually a source of income." You mean that there's a demonstrated ability to repay the loan, which isn't the same thing. I say this as a person who has taken many loans in my life, including ones while not working. Anyway that's up to the lender to sort out isn't it? > "Otherwise I struggle to imagine why anyone without income but with plenty of assets would take out a loan" Just because you struggle to imagine doesn't mean it isn't common for reasons you don't know or think about. I think this just shows some missing awareness about how things really work in the world more than anything else. Even Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, has billions of dollars in outstanding loans that he could repay today if he wanted to. I think a good place to start is to investigate why. > "All this feels" I get it. But I think we've established that you haven't considered the way these systems actually work, so your feelings probably aren't fully contextualized. > "is this something that actually happens" Given that I said that I did it personally, why is my story more contrived than the imaginary people in your head that you don't know anything about? > "They can't get a loan in Mexico?" I think this question is a non-sequitur. On what basis should someone's right to do something in place A have any bearing on their right to do something in place B?
maxerickson 2mo ago
It's borders that aren't supposed to be there, not people.
- gruez 2mo ago
  "There are no illegals on stolen land" and "abolish ICE" might be totems of progressives, but they're a slim minority. Only about 16% of Americans support no deportations whatsoever. https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025/03/RE_2025.03.26_Views-of-Deportations_FINAL.pdf https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025...
  - maxerickson 2mo ago
    So what is your point? They are wrong.
  - freejazz 2mo ago
    I genuinely don't understand how some people are allowed to post so much culture war slop all over this website

by gruez 2mo ago

BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago

Anecdotally speaking, I've personally lived in multiple countries on multi-year-long temporary resident visas without the right to work, because getting the right to work is a separate process from being allowed to be somewhere. So have family members. And in case it makes a difference, which it might, one of those countries was the US. In fact, did you know, in Canada it doesn't count as work for visa purposes if you work over the internet for a foreign company and get paid into a foreign bank account and don't compete professionally with local interests? (This is a free hot tip for anyone wanting to live in Canada. It might be true in some other places too, but I don't know.)

gruez 2mo ago
>Anecdotally speaking, I've personally lived in multiple countries on multi-year-long temporary resident visas without the right to work, because getting the right to work is a separate process from being allowed to be somewhere. So have family members. And in case it makes a difference, which it might, one of those countries was the US. Usually those long term visas (eg. student visas, I guess) require some sort of extra vetting to acquire (ie. they're not the tourist visas that get auto-issued at the border), and therefore are unlikely to be possessed by "people who aren't supposed to be here", so as a practical matter I agree they should be accepted in place of a "work visa".
triceratops 2mo ago
> in Canada it doesn't count as work for visa purposes if you work over the internet for a foreign company and get paid into a foreign bank account and don't compete professionally with local interests? Source? If you can do that, a Canadian could too. So you're directly competing with "local interests".
- BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago
  > Source? See e.g. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/temporary-residents/foreign-workers/what-is-work.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/co... What kind of activities are not considered to be “work”? ... long distance (by telephone or Internet) work done by a temporary resident whose employer is outside Canada and who is remunerated from outside Canada; Also: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/section-186.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227... A foreign national may work in Canada without a work permit (a) as a business visitor to Canada within the meaning of section 187; Which directs us to https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/section-187.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227... 187 (1) For the purposes of paragraph 186(a), a business visitor to Canada is a foreign national who ... seeks to engage in international business activities in Canada without directly entering the Canadian labour market. ... (3) For the purpose of subsection (1), a foreign national seeks to engage in international business activities in Canada without directly entering the Canadian labour market only if (a) the primary source of remuneration for the business activities is outside Canada; and (b) the principal place of business and actual place of accrual of profits remain predominately outside Canada. > If you can do that, a Canadian could too. So you're directly competing with "local interests". You may send your letter of complaint to the Government of Canada's department of Immigration, Refugees, and Citizenship. I'm kidding. :) I guess the interests to which you're referring are just tautologically not the interests I meant. Apologies for the confusion.
  - triceratops 2mo ago
    Fascinating!
    - BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago
      Right?!

count 2mo ago

Spouses of folks on many kinds of visa are allowed to be here, but aren't allowed to work.

gruez 2mo ago
So why would anyone give a loan to someone who can't legally work? If it's really spouse that's the sole earner, why not have the spouse take out the loan?
- BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago
  Ability to work in a particular place and ability to repay a loan are not the same thing: 1) People get loans against assets literally all the time. 2) People can live and work in different places.
  - gruez 2mo ago
    >1) People get loans against assets literally all the time. Typically in these cases, there's actually a source of income. You have to pay back the loan, after all. Otherwise I struggle to imagine why anyone without income but with plenty of assets would take out a loan, and having such documentation requirements would greatly inconvenience them. All this feels like a fig leaf for allowing workers lacking work visas to live and work in the US, while turning a blind eye. >2) People can live and work in different places. Again, is this something that actually happens, or is it just a contrived scenario? Is there really a large contingent of people working Mexico and then commuting back and forth to the US? They can't get a loan in Mexico?
    - BugsJustFindMe 2mo ago
      > "Typically in these cases, there's actually a source of income." You mean that there's a demonstrated ability to repay the loan, which isn't the same thing. I say this as a person who has taken many loans in my life, including ones while not working. Anyway that's up to the lender to sort out isn't it? > "Otherwise I struggle to imagine why anyone without income but with plenty of assets would take out a loan" Just because you struggle to imagine doesn't mean it isn't common for reasons you don't know or think about. I think this just shows some missing awareness about how things really work in the world more than anything else. Even Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, has billions of dollars in outstanding loans that he could repay today if he wanted to. I think a good place to start is to investigate why. > "All this feels" I get it. But I think we've established that you haven't considered the way these systems actually work, so your feelings probably aren't fully contextualized. > "is this something that actually happens" Given that I said that I did it personally, why is my story more contrived than the imaginary people in your head that you don't know anything about? > "They can't get a loan in Mexico?" I think this question is a non-sequitur. On what basis should someone's right to do something in place A have any bearing on their right to do something in place B?

maxerickson 2mo ago

It's borders that aren't supposed to be there, not people.

gruez 2mo ago
"There are no illegals on stolen land" and "abolish ICE" might be totems of progressives, but they're a slim minority. Only about 16% of Americans support no deportations whatsoever. https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025/03/RE_2025.03.26_Views-of-Deportations_FINAL.pdf https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025...
- maxerickson 2mo ago
  So what is your point? They are wrong.
- freejazz 2mo ago
  I genuinely don't understand how some people are allowed to post so much culture war slop all over this website