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The issue with AI datacenters was never about water. Water is an easily dismissable strawman that sloppers love to bring on. The real issue with AI datacenters

The issue with AI datacenters was never about water. Water is an easily dismissable strawman that sloppers love to bring on. The real issue with AI datacenters is the huge amounts of wasted energy, after decades of energy efficiency efforts.

elil17 2mo ago
Additionally, using more water allows datacenters to be more energy efficient because evaporative cooling uses less energy than dry cooling. Datacenters outside of water stressed areas should absolutely being using water because doing so is better for the environment.
trolleski 2mo ago
The eagerness of the corps to switch from "we're all green" to 'fuck Earth with AI' is stunning. I was always suspicious towards the 'corporate left' but this one takes the cake. We must never trust those people again.
- Gracana 2mo ago
  What influence do you have over these companies where your trust or distrust matters? [edit] This is an awfully pessimistic take. Even if these companies will largely do whatever they like, some of us can at least make choices to use alternatives. That is probably what you were getting at.
  - trolleski 2mo ago
    It is a very good point. We can split monopolies, and oligopolies, we can tax their owners, we can prevent and put under scrutiny any gov related spending going into those companies. No one cares whether you buy their stuff, just look at the products quality - they're on an entirety different endeavor altogether.
- karmakurtisaani 2mo ago
  Who the hell is the 'corporate left'?
  - gordian-mind 2mo ago
    Leftists with jobs, perhaps.
  - tempfile 2mo ago
    Companies that attempted for a brief period to pretend to care about climate change. That is a very left wing position among companies!
  - trolleski 2mo ago
    Owned by the corporations and pretends to be the left -> corporate left.
- Havoc 2mo ago
  It’s because the teams in charge of the soft messaging things like ESG are in their own bubble, entirely unconnected to the main business and everyone sorta just ignores them because anyone sane can see it’s not real. It’s like marketing and hr - they’re on their own mission
Intralexical 2mo ago
I agree energy use is the more concerning issue, while water has probably caught more press because it's more tangible. But there's no getting around thermodynamics. That "wasted energy" is dissipated using large amounts of water.
- blooalien 2mo ago
  > ... water has probably caught more press because it's more tangible. It's also "caught more press" because for some insane reason these clowns keep wanting to build them in deeply drought-stricken desert regions where many people are already under water restrictions due to the ongoing drought.
dudisubekti 2mo ago
lol no, if this is the case then we would have banned beef: a grossly inefficient protein source that takes absurd amount of energy and water, and produce significant greenhouse gas waste. We would also ban disposable cheap goods. Yet we don't. If people don't like AI, they should just say so, no need to skirt around.
- RunSet 2mo ago
  It's not AI, anymore than the Microsoft setup wizard is a sorcerer. I don't like the snake oil being sold as AI.
  - dudisubekti 2mo ago
    I... don’t follow? LLMs rely on many core AI concepts and techniques: neural networks, backpropagation, transformer inference, etc. An LLM is essentially an implementation of AI. The term AI has been around since 1955, and has been used by the academics ever since then. You might not like ChatGPT and co, but they're definitely AIs lol, at least in academic sense.
Hizonner 2mo ago
"Wasted" is a word people use to mean "used for a purpose I personally do not value". Try persuading people to share your values.
vlyan 2mo ago
>Water is an easily dismissable strawman that sloppers love to bring on. unreal fucking chutzpah. even here, where current thing activists do occasionally get challenged with indisputable evidence debunking their wild claims, they still stubbornly cling to the water narrative. on reddit and other spaces populated by the intellectual majority, it's gospel that every chatgpt query consumes a lake.

elil17 2mo ago

Additionally, using more water allows datacenters to be more energy efficient because evaporative cooling uses less energy than dry cooling. Datacenters outside of water stressed areas should absolutely being using water because doing so is better for the environment.

trolleski 2mo ago

The eagerness of the corps to switch from "we're all green" to 'fuck Earth with AI' is stunning. I was always suspicious towards the 'corporate left' but this one takes the cake. We must never trust those people again.

Gracana 2mo ago
What influence do you have over these companies where your trust or distrust matters? [edit] This is an awfully pessimistic take. Even if these companies will largely do whatever they like, some of us can at least make choices to use alternatives. That is probably what you were getting at.
- trolleski 2mo ago
  It is a very good point. We can split monopolies, and oligopolies, we can tax their owners, we can prevent and put under scrutiny any gov related spending going into those companies. No one cares whether you buy their stuff, just look at the products quality - they're on an entirety different endeavor altogether.
karmakurtisaani 2mo ago
Who the hell is the 'corporate left'?
- gordian-mind 2mo ago
  Leftists with jobs, perhaps.
- tempfile 2mo ago
  Companies that attempted for a brief period to pretend to care about climate change. That is a very left wing position among companies!
- trolleski 2mo ago
  Owned by the corporations and pretends to be the left -> corporate left.
Havoc 2mo ago
It’s because the teams in charge of the soft messaging things like ESG are in their own bubble, entirely unconnected to the main business and everyone sorta just ignores them because anyone sane can see it’s not real. It’s like marketing and hr - they’re on their own mission

Intralexical 2mo ago

I agree energy use is the more concerning issue, while water has probably caught more press because it's more tangible. But there's no getting around thermodynamics. That "wasted energy" is dissipated using large amounts of water.

blooalien 2mo ago
> ... water has probably caught more press because it's more tangible. It's also "caught more press" because for some insane reason these clowns keep wanting to build them in deeply drought-stricken desert regions where many people are already under water restrictions due to the ongoing drought.

dudisubekti 2mo ago

lol no, if this is the case then we would have banned beef: a grossly inefficient protein source that takes absurd amount of energy and water, and produce significant greenhouse gas waste. We would also ban disposable cheap goods. Yet we don't. If people don't like AI, they should just say so, no need to skirt around.

RunSet 2mo ago
It's not AI, anymore than the Microsoft setup wizard is a sorcerer. I don't like the snake oil being sold as AI.
- dudisubekti 2mo ago
  I... don’t follow? LLMs rely on many core AI concepts and techniques: neural networks, backpropagation, transformer inference, etc. An LLM is essentially an implementation of AI. The term AI has been around since 1955, and has been used by the academics ever since then. You might not like ChatGPT and co, but they're definitely AIs lol, at least in academic sense.

Hizonner 2mo ago

"Wasted" is a word people use to mean "used for a purpose I personally do not value". Try persuading people to share your values.

vlyan 2mo ago

>Water is an easily dismissable strawman that sloppers love to bring on. unreal fucking chutzpah. even here, where current thing activists do occasionally get challenged with indisputable evidence debunking their wild claims, they still stubbornly cling to the water narrative. on reddit and other spaces populated by the intellectual majority, it's gospel that every chatgpt query consumes a lake.