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Half of Europe's towns and villages have fewer residents than 60 years ago
- yawpitch 2mo agoAnthropologists announce that human populations tend to congregate towards urbanity. Next sports.
- selimthegrim 2mo agoWhat, no "film at 11" or "Later tonight, Kojak"?
- yawpitch 2mo agoThis would definitely be in the apres-Kojak, just before sign-off part of the evening.
- cineticdaffodil 2mo ago[dead]
- rf15 2mo agoyes, but it's still rough. I live 200m from the border of a european capital with good road access towards everything, and even our community is continually shrinking.
- ta20240528 2mo agoHere's how you can stop it: no national licences to distribute power, telecommunications, medicine, fuel, etc. Even some software. Then you will have to have regional duplicates of each. Stuff will cost more though.
- jacobolus 2mo agoThis will possibly help region-central cities keep a small proportion of the jobs that have moved to the biggest national/international cities. It's not going to help rural villages.
- pibaker 2mo agoThis is how communist countries managed to make educated professional urbanites live more impoverished lives than American burger flippers. By prioritizing "equality" to the point that you destroy your society's productivity and make everyone's life worse. Would not recommend.
- yawpitch 2mo agoOf course you’re now living through the capitalist dystopia where prioritizing “productivity” is making everyone’s life worse than said communist professional urbanite, but with the added benefit that burger flipping is coming back as an employment sector for recent indentured graduates / serfs. Would also not recommend.
- pibaker 2mo agoAt least in my capitalist dystopia I'm not forced to share my bathroom and kitchen with Ivan next door, like Soviet college professors did. If you think anything in the first world constitutes indentured servitude, I have some really bad news about how you decide what your job is in the USSR. Hint: you don't.
- yawpitch 2mo agoWell no, nowadays you don’t get a bathroom, you get a juice bottle on your “break” between sprints around a Bezosian Labyrinth. Also, bit of news for you, the USSR no longer exists, while the people who still see communism everywhere carry the highest debt load ever while their wages haven’t kept with with real inflation in generations. So yeah, it’s indentured service, only instead of scrip and the company store it’s an endless buffet of perpetually-more-enshittified subscriptions services in a home you’re only renting while driving a car you’ll never own.
- wannabe44 2mo agoAnd urban civilizations eventually collapse?
- yoz-y 2mo agoNot enough software engineers converting to farming? Shocking. If anything else, for me the main issue in France is the dearth of doctors in rural areas. So even the romantic idea of retiring in quaint village is predicated on not getting sick.
- tanepiper 2mo agoThis. I'm originally from the UK, now in NL and the plan was to retire in France. Being close to a hospital is one requirement since some of these villages are over a hour away. With that and climate change our plans might be changing
- 72deluxe 2mo agoOut of curiosity, where did you plan on retiring to and what preparations would be needed? I drove down France this year over a few weeks in an old camper van during the heatwave (like being in an oven) and it is a truly vast beautiful country. I couldn't possibly decide where to retire there, if I ever had a chance (I won't).
- tanepiper 2mo agoBrittany - probably a bit west of Rennes. I like the coast but once you pass Saint-Brieuc the roads get a lot smaller. Well until this year it seemed like the coolest and most stable part of France - also the least French part and reminds me of Scotland. (We have friends who just sold up and moved to near Bordeaux - not sure it they are regretting it yet)
- 72deluxe 2mo agoThank you. I will try to visit that area. I visited outside Bordeaux at Saint Émilion and found the area very beautiful, so hopefully they don't regret it. The price of wine in the country was so amazingly reasonable that even if they did regret moving, they could live in a constant wine fugue and be oblivious to their worries, partly...?
- 2mo ago
- riffraff 2mo agoIt is my hope that increased connectivity and options to study, work, and interact with other people from anywhere will partially revert this trend, but honestly, it seems inevitable. Part of my family hails from a small Mountain Village which used to be quite alive thirty years ago, but now the majority of the population is above 60, and there's only a handful of children. Small towns have many positive sides, but network effects are too important for people.
- yoz-y 2mo agoFor me towns have more perverse networks though. You meet more people but the connections are more shallow (as an adult). I am really torn about where to raise my kid as it really seems one has to choose between opportunities and social/family life.
- harshshah212003 2mo agoGood time to go? Better and more affordable life?
- pllbnk 2mo agoThe life quality is definitely better. The affordability hardly so, unless you can secure your income streams.
- roschdal 2mo agoEurope has been ruined, since USA interfered militarily in Europe. Since 1900, major U.S. military interventions in Europe have included full-scale combat operations during World War I (1917–1918) and World War II (1941–1945), as well as targeted Allied troop deployments in Archangel and Siberia during the Russian Civil War (1918–1920). Throughout the Cold War, U.S. forces executed non-combat and advisory operations, such as supplying West Berlin during the Berlin Airlift (1948–1949) and providing direct military aid during the Greek Civil War (1947–1949). In the post-Cold War era, the U.S. engaged in several NATO-led Balkan campaigns, including airstrikes and peacekeeping missions in Bosnia and Herzegovina (1992–1995), a 78-day air campaign and ground deployment in Yugoslavia and Kosovo (1999), and a brief disarmament operation in North Macedonia (2001).
- nobodywillobsrv 2mo agoYes. This is basically true but unclear the causal link to the true problems.
- gfrecvh 2mo agoI would to like to know which of its interventions you're talking about. People don't normally complain about the help on WW2
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- perpetuallunch 2mo agoWhen did the USA interfere militarily in Europe? Would Europe have been better off under Nazi Germany? Is that what you’re saying?
- spockz 2mo agoIt appears that it is turning into a problem in Italy for another reason. In mountainous regions the streams would be maintained by the people owning the land. With people leaving the area the waterways are left unmaintained leaving debris such as large trunks as branches in the water. This effect is compounded by that the land that remains “actively” owned is divided amongst many descendants that can never agree to either fix something or pay to get it fixed. The consequence of all this is that water flows less freely and that when there is a lot of rainfall it comes not just with water but also large amounts of trees and stones. I imagine this happening in many places.
- aurareturn 2mo agoHow about the other half?
- Flaiming 2mo agoThere are definitely some data missing, because in Czechia where I live there are some areas on the map with 100% decline in population like Libavá and Březina, which definitely have some population. I don't know about any village that would be totally de-populated. https://obyvateleceska.cz/olomouc/libava/503941 https://obyvateleceska.cz/olomouc/libava/503941
- johanvts 2mo agoClassic null being replaced by 0.
- wink 2mo agoIt's a bit weird and maybe more complicated. I checked the area around Munich, Germany (where I live). - one is an actual lake (correct shape) that went down to 0 from a bogus 1 - three are actual forests/parks which may have had some sorts, but 11/16/48 to 0 is a rounding error, but there is no filter for absolute, it technically is -100%... - bit further out is another lake with 14 to 0
- igor_nast 2mo agoYet still a lot of houses is expensive as h...rent/buy - doesn't really matter.
- gfrecvh 2mo agoHouses are expensive in places where everybody wants to be.
- igor_nast 2mo agoYou didn't understand, I was referring to those "depopulated" places as well. So even thought a population of an area decreased prices don't show that.
- gfrecvh 2mo agoI take it you've never heard of the 1 euro houses in rural Italy then...?
- igor_nast 2mo agoI take it you don't understand that nobody wants to live there - so considering it as a housing option is a joke. But ok, sorry for making a shortcut in my prev comment.
- gfrecvh 2mo agoThe point that I and the other commenters are making to you is that house are cheaper in less attractive places. I presented an extreme, but it's true across the spectrum.
- slaw 2mo agoThese 1 Euro houses are scam. You have to pay for renovation more than it is worth.
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- outime 2mo agoPeople move to where they can make a living. Globalization has largely killed farming as a viable livelihood (in most of the EU at least), it's simply not profitable enough unless you have a massive amount of land/cattle or have invested heavily in automation (usually both). Without that important sector, it's doubtful the trend will reverse unless cities become literally unlivable or there's some kind of miracle in transport technology.
- Ekaros 2mo agoFor Finland it seems that it is not the farming automation that kills these places. It is the deindustrialisation. Places die as the jobs die. And jobs are killed by big factories being closed leading to all other services starving. Globalisation is the killer, but via factories not farms.
- danaris 2mo agoThe trend will reverse once we have enough people in positions of power both able to recognise and willing to admit that remote work is, for at least 75% of office jobs, at least as good as onsite work. (Not "without tradeoffs", just "at least as good, overall".) Sadly, this is going to have to be at least a generational change, as the current people in power are deeply entrenched in the mindset that "managing people" means "ensuring butts are in seats", and that they are neofeudal lords overseeing their techno-serfs, which they can only feel good about if they can go aggravate them in person.
- wink 2mo agoI'd love to have statistics on how many people can not work remotely because their partner can't work remotely. Maybe starting with how many jobs are office jobs that don't require f2f would be a good sample, but I've never seen such numbers.
- simonra 2mo agoEven with opportunities for remote work, after having spent ages 8 though 19 rurally and in suburbia, you'd have to pay me enough so I'd be able to comfortably retire to a proper city after about 3 to 5 years. I've gotten to know myself, I'm deeply not into nature or generic sports, and only digitally socialising with people you share interests with (i.e. not parents and siblings) makes existence suck immeasurably (sure modern multiplayer games are a bit better than what you got over dialup, but still).
- retired 2mo agoMeanwhile The Netherlands is bright green due to its suburbanization policies of the 1970s. Let’s spread people out instead of building out our cities…
- pibaker 2mo agoI don't think what works in a small and flat country with a famously productive agricultural sector can work equally well in the mountains of Spain and Italy.
- retired 2mo agoNorthern France isn’t that mountainous and is way, way more urbanized than The Netherlands.
- spwa4 2mo agoIf you look economically how that works (ie. tax haven + oil + "buying the population", ie. the extremely rich pay for that for not great reasons) you will see that, first, it's not sustainable and, second, it can't be replicated elsewhere (for one thing, it requires the country to be small). I mean there are places it can be replicated, say Norway, but for the vast majority of countries this is not possible.
- jillesvangurp 2mo agoSome countries have really high housing prices and housing scarcity right on a border with another country where this isn't the case. You can get 30-40% differences just by moving a few km on the borders of the Netherlands. The reason this isn't that popular is that by moving like that you get to deal with different jurisdictions and tax systems. Particularly the social systems different countries have are very different. So there's a cost to moving to another country. But it sure is tempting when you realize that what you paid for a small apartment buys you a large house with a garden just 10 km away. Here in Berlin where I currently live the population grows by a out 50K people a year. There are housing shortages and people are struggling to find a place to live. However the surrounding Brandenburg area has been depopulating since the wall fell. Lots of little ghost towns there. And it's not even that far. There's plenty of housing available if you can tolerate the inconvenience of a shitty commute. IMHO the coming revolution of autonomous driving is going to lower the cost and inconvenience of living a bit further away. It enables working or relaxing while you commute. A two hour commute is much less of a problem if you can be a bit productive. And of course you don't have to do that everyday. Lots of people work remotely some or all of the time. Autonomous driving could also lower the cost of public transport by eliminating the cost of drivers and fossil fuels. Most of the reason of remote villages being underserved by public transport is cost. On demand pickups/dropoffs and more flexible scheduling could further address that. And it's a lot cheaper than commuter rail extensions.
- gfrecvh 2mo ago> There's plenty of housing available if you can tolerate the inconvenience of a shitty commute. I would rather pay for the better location than pay for the larger house. The physical size of my home isn't a large factor in my quality of life. The length of my commute is. Now I was going to write "It's really weird to me this isn't a more mainstream view", but given the data we're looking at, seems this view is absolutely the mainstream.
- retired 2mo agoFor most people the size of their home reflects the quality of life. Having separate bedrooms for all children, having a room dedicated to a home office, having an outdoor space to relax, having a dedicated EV charger, having a second bathroom to make the morning more streamlined. To a certain point a large house makes life better. So I understand having a 50 minute commute if that means everything in the house is a better experience.
- gfrecvh 2mo agoWhat is the actual problem with this development?
- johanvts 2mo agoIn my country part of the problem is taxation. Real estate gains are not taxed so we have instantiated a mini feudal system where the land owning class need not work, and many chase speculation over productive labor, and since this group is rather large this is exacerbating the demographic problems we already have with labor supply. Further it is driving a feeling of unfairness among the rural population that leads to political instability. Finally it is leaving some areas simple in lack of maintenance.
- messh 2mo agohalf have fewer... and.. half have more?
- adaml_623 2mo agoThe population in general is larger which is why depopulation of towns is interesting
- EdSchouten 2mo agoThe area on the map that is green corresponds to the blue banana: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana
- higeorge13 2mo agoSame in Greece, the countryside and even the islands are dying or declining. Everyone is moving to Athens or nearby big cities. Even most greek islands have become huge only-summer resorts and a large airbnb, most of their villages are almost empty during the winter. There are various reasons but the most important ones are that a big majority of properties has been bought by foreigners as vacation homes and there is no incentive for locals or other greeks to go there and create businesses for noone mid-winter without schools, doctors, etc. Add to that younger generations don't want to stay and work as farmers, bakers, builders despite the fact that in most of these professions are in real need and can make great money there. People prefer the easy money from airbnb and property selling to foreigners.
- sixtyj 2mo agoIt is sad what you mention. The commoditisation, clustering and gentrification of landscape and living is world-wide phenomenon. At Corsica FLNC fought with bombing against hijacking of landscape by vacationers. But xenophobia solves nothing. Revolution? Slow collapse? Some way out of the cities and back to the countryside? Idk. Time will tell.
- higeorge13 2mo agoIt's not about xenophobia, more like fear that the greek landscape we know won't be like this in the future. But greeks are not xenophobic, i would say the opposite. They seem to just enjoy the free money from selling their properties to anyone but don't care about what's left. Islands are getting over-built, Mykonos has become like a tiny Dubai, most popular greek beaches (e.g. Sarakiniko in Milos) are getting constructed with luxury hotels with pools, etc destroying the natural landscape, island villages are getting bought by foreigners who visit Greece for 10 days every 2 or 3 years. What's left behind? Who will work as a regular plumber or baker there? Who will preserve the iconic greek island architecture in future buildings there? The non existent and corrupt construction laws or the foreigners who might not care enough for one of their remote properties (probably just used for extra income via airbnb)?
- d3vnull 2mo ago
- muzani 2mo agoSomething strange happens when people get wealthy and advanced enough. Cost of living rises, workload increases, it becomes unaffordable to have kids. 30 years later, everything is empty. Places like Australia have plenty of land but, nah, everyone wants to live urban where housing prices are insane or inherited. Food costs often go down in developed countries, cheaper than developing ones. Maybe they're so low that they can't afford to become farmers anymore? Not enough people buy corn and corn price is so cheap that it gets made into HFCS. But if you can't mass produce cheap corn, you're screwed and get a desk job. So we have the service economy. Everyone sells services to one another, works from home, makes tons of money. Madrid has top-tier designers, chefs, doctors, moneylenders, nearly every kind of service. All the piles of money in a concentrated place like Madrid makes the whole place overpriced. If you happen to be the best tuna butcher in Western Europe, there's a limited number of places you can work, but many of these specialist jobs are also wfh. Is there a hack to this though? Can our top tier Spanish pixel artist sell her services to someone in suburban Canada?
- squishington 2mo agoI grew up in regional Australia. All of my friends from there moved to the city because they wanted careers. Myself included. My friend who stayed there still works in farming and lives just above the poverty line, and can't compete for a rental so he lives in a shack in a paddock. House prices there also became ridiculous after the pandemic.
- spwa4 2mo agoIndeed. This is policy. House prices rising generates a lot of money for the government for a lot of reasons so they try to stimulate it, so they can spend more "with less taxing". The biggest factor here is the central bank lending to banks lending you mortgages (so the high house prices effectively become a tax. You will pay either through loan repayment or rental), the second factor is "seignorage" on the total value the central bank loans out (the government can spend effectively 4% of total money lent out loan for free, more if they also cause inflation) Governments do this in all sorts of ways, including the big one: making this the only real risk-free but effective way to save up and have a bigger pension at retirement (so any change to this system will take a LOT of money out of the pockets of old people, who often can't replace it anymore) But if you made mortgages either have real risk for banks or stopped funding them through central bank loans ... house prices will crash down. And having inflation is simply a choice. We could choose otherwise. The problem with changing this is that it will require a permanent reduction in government spending or a permanent (big) raise in tax. Both are non-starters. What this does over time is it makes labor that has low productivity, such as farming, less and less realistic if you want a decent life. It is a ratchet that forces the population to make more and more money over time ... or face destitution. It's been an extremely powerful way for countries to get rich.
- contubernio 2mo ago1. The phenomenon exists, but what is the problem? 2. Surely "municipality" does not mean the same thing in different countries.
- Mashimo 2mo agoOdd, why has Hamburg and Berlin stayed the same population in the last 30 years?
- yokaze 2mo agoCity states. The borders are administrative and hard to change, so people living in the "suburbs" live not only in a different city, but a different state.
- yokaze 2mo agoMissed the other part. Why does the density doesn't not improve in the city states? More and more people want to live in the city, as you can see in the skyrocketing rents, but they do not want to - build higher - build more dense (in particular, keep the green areas)
- haunter 2mo agoIf you just want the map and not this ever scrolling cinematic experience https://cdn.correctiv.org/deployed-apps/CE_2026_population_map/ https://cdn.correctiv.org/deployed-apps/CE_2026_population_m...
- thefz 2mo agoLay fiber, strenghten 5G coverage, allow work from home. Problem solved.
- spwa4 2mo agoIf you think this is bad, there is no such map of North Africa or Turkey, but the situation there is much worse.
- metalman 2mo agohere in Nova Scotia there are many rural comunities with NO children and where all of the adults are over 40. many small rural homes are torn down as it reduces the tax/maintenance burden on the owners who are city dwellers now, and use a travel trailer to visit. there are comunities on the map that no longer physicaly exist, except for perhaps one empty house, or literaly nothing recognisable as a town remaining, just named streets on a map, and trees where they, apairently once were. our city (singular) is booming, and the larger towns within the magic 1 hr drive from the city are also booming, but much of the rural landscape is bieng abandoned. but perversly, the final phase of twinning the trans canada hyway through New Brunswick has revealed an unknown phenominon where it is impossible for people to drive for 6 hours through scrub spruce and not stop and build a Wallmart, and so the trans Canada is slowly becoming a very long, very narrow strip mall, with sections several hundred kilometers long through ontario and quebec finnished, no homes or schools or hospitals mind you, just endless retail oportunities
- BobaFloutist 2mo agoWhere do the people working the retail live? Up or down the corridor I assume?
- znpy 2mo agoSpeaking as an Italian: during the pandemic and the immediate post-pandemic there was a huuuge trend of people moving back to the South because now with remote working they could effectively bring their job with them. Then the Government did little to nothing to encourage that, and at some point the trend essentially died. Needless to say, a lot of couples could have moved to their areas of origin, have the support of the extended family (grandparents) and that would have likely helped with children (particularly with couples yearning to have more children. It was another lost occasion to revitalise some of the smaller towns.
- thrill 2mo agoSo the other half have more?
- insane_dreamer 2mo agointeresting to see the stark difference between say Ireland and Spain in this regard
- throwawaypath 2mo agoNothing 100 million more MENA and Muslim migrants can't fix!