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If people actually read the claims... it's about fair business practices, this is why they are suing Sony: > ... In the EU, it is forbidden for large companies
by braiamp 2mo ago
If people actually read the claims... it's about fair business practices, this is why they are suing Sony:
> ... In the EU, it is forbidden for large companies to abuse their position to make more profit at the expense of consumers. Yet Sony does not fully abide by these rules.
>
> If you buy a digital game or in-game content, Sony will only ensure that you can do so through its own PlayStation Store. Sony keeps the market to itself in this way and can keep prices artificially high. This way you pay more, without getting anything extra in return. This is called the “Sony Tax.”
This is not a lawsuit about Sony "taking away my discs", it's something like "Sony allegedly used its control over the PlayStation ecosystem to restrict competition in digital distribution, allowing it to keep prices artificially high and harm consumers".
- keoneflick 2mo ago> Sony does not fully abide by these rules. If you buy a digital game or in-game content, Sony will only ensure that you can do so through its own PlayStation Store. I have assumed that retail locations will continue to sell game codes, just not game disks, post disks going away. Currently there are games from like Just Dance that only include a game code in the retail box rather than game CD because of the way the game works (you're buying a dlc more than a game). Maybe I'm wrong, but I would be surprised if PlayStation completely goes away from retail, for reasons including anti-trust, but also to encourage stocking the physical PS6 console.
- axus 2mo agoUnlike a disc, you can't use the code without going through the PlayStation Store. And you likely cannot resell it, either. You can't buy a non-Sony PlayStation, I guess they'll argue it's similar.
- derektank 2mo agoIt does seem like a reasonable middle ground would be something like selling a dongle that provides PIV attestation of ownership, that could be resold and could even be used across platforms. Of course, there’s no incentive for the console manufacturers to offer this.
- axus 2mo agoThat would be kind of impressive if Sony had a "used digital games" marketplace and took a cut of every trade, without sending any to the publisher.
- llukas 2mo agoGame cartridges but with TPM inside? What is not to like?
- MiroslavPokorny 2mo agoGame carts have always had "special chips" within them. The NES and SNES for example had their famous lockout chips which gave Nintendo a monopoly on releasing games, except for the Activision/EA thing were they reversed engineered the chips.
- BadBadJellyBean 2mo agoYou wouldn't even need a dongle if your license wasn't permanently bound to one account. It's not hard to transfer a license, but it's very undesirable for Sony, Microsoft, Valve, etc...
- CivBase 2mo agoWhy on earth would I go to a game store to buy a code?
- keoneflick 2mo agoBecause they have a better price?
- MiroslavPokorny 2mo agoFor how long ?
- aurareturn 2mo agoHow can a physical store that pays rent possibly beat a website that costs $10/month to host?
- parski 2mo agoThe physical stores already beat that website despite offering physical discs in physical cases.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- SR2Z 2mo agoBecause the margin on digital goods is effectively 100%. As long as a retailer can secure a license for less than the publisher directly charges customers, they can undercut the publisher and still make a profit. At least in theory. I'm not sure GS is making it through this decade, because it doesn't seem like there's enough volume to make that work.
- IshKebab 2mo agoHmm but when that argument was applied to phones, Android essentially got punished for being more open than Apple - you actually can have other app stores on Android, therefore Google could be held accountable for anti-competitive actions in the Android app marketplace. Whereas Apple doesn't allow any third party app stores so there's no competition in the first place and they're fine! Retarded logic but I feel like if you apply the same logic to Sony, they'll also be fine.
- braiamp 2mo agoWhat the heck are you talking about? Both Apple and Google were hit by the EU anti-gatekeeping law. I am not going to engage with the rest since it's based on a supposition that is plainly wrong.
- ekianjo 2mo agoSo Apple in the EU allows for alternative app stores?
- choo-t 2mo agoYes, with some caveat ("notarization" and "core technology fee").
- vrganj 2mo agoYup. https://rileytestut.com/blog/2024/04/17/introducing-altstore-pal/ https://rileytestut.com/blog/2024/04/17/introducing-altstore...
- troupo 2mo agoYes, and they've spent extraordinary amount of time snd resources to be as maliciously compliant as possible.
- andai 2mo agoSo it's surprising to me that this is against the law. Is it an EU law, or a Dutch one? Does that mean this also applies to Apple, Steam, etc.?
- HDBaseT 2mo agoThe argument is that on PlayStation, the only option you have going forward is via the 'PlayStation Store'. Previously, you could buy a physical disc from GameStop, Walmart or trade with your friend. Now you are locked into one company. This isn't about digital or physical, its about there only being one option. Your question drags in Steam (Valve) but I question how they operate even remotely like this? You can build or buy any PC, install Steam on it, or not. You can download games from 30 different platforms, including DRM free ones. You can still purchase some (albeit limited) games on disc from other retailers. You are by no means REQUIRED to use Steam. You can use any hardware (not just Valve hardware) and use any store. How does this relate?
- aurareturn 2mo ago[flagged]
- andai 2mo agoI'm also not required to purchase a PlayStation. The explainer video said Sony is breaking the law (which one?), so they're suing them to get rid of the platform fee. How does a platform make money without a fee? That's why I invoked Steam and Apple.
- aurareturn 2mo agoSony is in a way worse position than Steam and Apple. Apple makes high margins on every iPhone sale. Steam doesn't even need to make hardware. Meanwhile, Sony sells Playstations at cost or at a loss historically.
- andai 2mo agoRight. So Apple's allowed to do it, and Sony has an even more valid reason to do it.
- aurareturn 2mo agoThis is not a lawsuit about Sony "taking away my discs", it's something like "Sony allegedly used its control over the PlayStation ecosystem to restrict competition in digital distribution, allowing it to keep prices artificially high and harm consumers". Sony sells their consoles at break even or sometimes at a loss. They hope to make money from their software sales. Console business has always operated this way. This is why the PS5 launched at $400 and had the graphics horse power of a computer that cost $1,500-$2,000 in the year 2020. So it makes absolute sense for Sony to "restrict competition" because that's literally the reason why a $400 PS5 was possible. Can we please have some common sense here? I know this post could very well be unpopular here because HN crowd often detest companies trying to make money. Sony's console business does not always make a profit. There are often huge risks. For example, the PS3 era was a financial disaster. The Wii U era nearly broke Nintendo. Xbox overall has lost Microsoft money. The tides are clearly pointing to non-physical game sales. PC gaming has long moved onto digital sales via Steam, GOG, Microsoft, etc. Mobile games are 100% digital. It makes sense for consoles to do this as well in order to stay profitable. Let the free market choose. If physical console games are important to them, then Microsoft's next Xbox could capitalize or gamers can buy games for Switch 2.
- jcranmer 2mo ago> Console business has always operated this way. Actually, I think the practice of selling the console at a loss only started with roughly the PS2 or PS3 generation. (The PS3 and later were very definitely sold for a loss, but I've been unable to track down verifiable statements for the PS1 or PS2.)
- aurareturn 2mo agoSega Dreamcast sold at a loss. I'm sure there were others in the past as well.
- MiroslavPokorny 2mo agoPretty sure the SNES and megadrive were sold at a loss as well.
- cyberrock 2mo agoI've heard similar logic to excuse Steam from this mess, because they grant (5000 with no guarantee of more) keys to publishers and developers to sell on other stores. But it really doesn't address the biggest concerns of digitization, like control and second hand market. Sony will just copy Steam and this will fizzle.