3 ms·

Dying in the third-world from cancer means you die. Dying in the US from cancer means you probably will bankrupt your family first, and ultimately die faster du

Dying in the third-world from cancer means you die. Dying in the US from cancer means you probably will bankrupt your family first, and ultimately die faster due to the financial burden/stress.

wat10000 2mo ago
Apparently HN commenters have difficulty with the concept of "metrics." What are the numbers? The US system sucks in a lot of ways, but it works OK for most Americans. If you're very poor, you'll have Medicaid and it'll cost you nothing. If you're an average middle class person, you'll have decent health insurance and your costs will be affordable. There's a slice of people in the middle who don't qualify for medicaid but don't have decent health insurance, and they're going to have serious financial trouble. But most Americans aren't in that situation. There's a tendency to look at the worst situations and assume it applies to everyone. How we treat the least fortunate is extremely important and I won't defend the US here, but there's a pretty big gulf between a significant minority who can face massive financial burdens from medical care, and "it's basically a third-world country...."
- toasty228 2mo ago
  It doesn't work OK at all, you spend twice as much per capita for worse services on average
- fridek 2mo ago
  The health care system is the most expensive in the world, while not producing the best life expectancy. It is in fact very much in line with Poland, except if you have $20k/yr in Poland for medical expenses you can expect concierge level treatment. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health-expenditure https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health...
  - nradov 2mo ago
    That's a non sequitur. The healthcare system has very little impact on life expectancy.
- ajuc 2mo ago
  US life expectancy is 79.76 years. That's 62nd in the world, lover than EU average, lower than many less wealthy countries. It's objectively not "working OK" for most Americans, especially when you consider how much you spend for subpar results. Source: https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ Now you can blame it on bad lifestyle, addictions, car culture, crime rate, etc. All true, and idiotic healthcare system is indirectly influencing all of that.
  - nradov 2mo ago
    How exactly does the healthcare system cause people to crash their cars, abuse recreational drugs, overeat, and commit violent crimes?
    - ajuc 2mo ago
      Medical bankrupcy would make you homeless and cause you to abuse drugs and commit crimes at higher rate for one example. Badly controlled medical system with bad incentives caused opioid crisis. Bad incentives (government and healthcare system earning money on people getting sick instead of losing money on them) also makes it less likely for the system to focus on healthy work-life balance (paid maternity leave, paid vacations, good preventive care, education for healthy lifestyle) and instead focuses on expansive aftercare.
      - nradov 2mo ago
        What a weird comment. Most people who go through bankruptcy don't become homeless. And most people who go through medical treatment don't become bankrupt.
        ajuc 2mo ago
        If it happens much more in US than in other countries - it contributes. There's about 500 000 medical bankrupcies in US per year. That's huge. Also - medical debt (not even bankrupcy necessarily) contributes significantly to homelessness: https://publichealthpost.org/health-equity/medical-debt-homelessness/ https://publichealthpost.org/health-equity/medical-debt-home... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513034/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513034/ > two-thirds [of homeless interviewed] reporting current medical debt. Almost half reported trouble paying medical bills for themselves or family members. Almost one-third believed medical debt was in part responsible for their current housing situation. More than half with medical debt incurred this debt while they were covered under insurance. People who had trouble paying medical bills experienced a more recent episode of homelessness 2 years longer than those who did not have such trouble, even after controlling for race, education, age, gender, and health status
- troupo 2mo ago
  > but there's a pretty big gulf between a significant minority who can face massive financial burdens from medical care "significant minority".
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
anon291 2mo ago
Simply wrong in most states.
- sscaryterry 2mo ago
  Most? This kinda affirms my point. Where healthcare is free at point of use, the problem is non-existent.
  - nradov 2mo ago
    Where healthcare is free at point of use, many of the advanced cancer treatments aren't available at all. This is one of the reasons why the USA is at or near the top in survival rates for most types of cancer.
    - sscaryterry 2mo ago
      See my original comment. These advanced cancer treatments are often not paid for by insurers.
      - nradov 2mo ago
        Which cancer treatments are those?
    - troupo 2mo ago
      Unless you're one of the 15+ million who are disenrolled from Medicaid. Or you're one of the 8.1% uninsured in states who didn't expand ACA: https://academic.oup.com/healthaffairsscholar/article/2/1/qxad083/7511732 https://academic.oup.com/healthaffairsscholar/article/2/1/qx... But sure, the poor should just stop being poor.
  - wat10000 2mo ago
    No it doesn't. You said "probably will bankrupt your family." This is not true.
nozzlegear 2mo ago
This is some Reddit ass "America bad" diatribe that doesn't mesh with reality
Levitz 2mo ago
It's actually worrying that people seriously believe stuff like this.

Dying in the third-world from cancer means you die. Dying in the US from cancer means you probably will bankrupt your family first, and ultimately die faster due to the financial burden/stress.

wat10000 2mo ago

Apparently HN commenters have difficulty with the concept of "metrics." What are the numbers? The US system sucks in a lot of ways, but it works OK for most Americans. If you're very poor, you'll have Medicaid and it'll cost you nothing. If you're an average middle class person, you'll have decent health insurance and your costs will be affordable. There's a slice of people in the middle who don't qualify for medicaid but don't have decent health insurance, and they're going to have serious financial trouble. But most Americans aren't in that situation. There's a tendency to look at the worst situations and assume it applies to everyone. How we treat the least fortunate is extremely important and I won't defend the US here, but there's a pretty big gulf between a significant minority who can face massive financial burdens from medical care, and "it's basically a third-world country...."

toasty228 2mo ago
It doesn't work OK at all, you spend twice as much per capita for worse services on average
fridek 2mo ago
The health care system is the most expensive in the world, while not producing the best life expectancy. It is in fact very much in line with Poland, except if you have $20k/yr in Poland for medical expenses you can expect concierge level treatment. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health-expenditure https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health...
- nradov 2mo ago
  That's a non sequitur. The healthcare system has very little impact on life expectancy.
ajuc 2mo ago
US life expectancy is 79.76 years. That's 62nd in the world, lover than EU average, lower than many less wealthy countries. It's objectively not "working OK" for most Americans, especially when you consider how much you spend for subpar results. Source: https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ Now you can blame it on bad lifestyle, addictions, car culture, crime rate, etc. All true, and idiotic healthcare system is indirectly influencing all of that.
- nradov 2mo ago
  How exactly does the healthcare system cause people to crash their cars, abuse recreational drugs, overeat, and commit violent crimes?
  - ajuc 2mo ago
    Medical bankrupcy would make you homeless and cause you to abuse drugs and commit crimes at higher rate for one example. Badly controlled medical system with bad incentives caused opioid crisis. Bad incentives (government and healthcare system earning money on people getting sick instead of losing money on them) also makes it less likely for the system to focus on healthy work-life balance (paid maternity leave, paid vacations, good preventive care, education for healthy lifestyle) and instead focuses on expansive aftercare.
    - nradov 2mo ago
      What a weird comment. Most people who go through bankruptcy don't become homeless. And most people who go through medical treatment don't become bankrupt.
      - ajuc 2mo ago
        If it happens much more in US than in other countries - it contributes. There's about 500 000 medical bankrupcies in US per year. That's huge. Also - medical debt (not even bankrupcy necessarily) contributes significantly to homelessness: https://publichealthpost.org/health-equity/medical-debt-homelessness/ https://publichealthpost.org/health-equity/medical-debt-home... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513034/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513034/ > two-thirds [of homeless interviewed] reporting current medical debt. Almost half reported trouble paying medical bills for themselves or family members. Almost one-third believed medical debt was in part responsible for their current housing situation. More than half with medical debt incurred this debt while they were covered under insurance. People who had trouble paying medical bills experienced a more recent episode of homelessness 2 years longer than those who did not have such trouble, even after controlling for race, education, age, gender, and health status
troupo 2mo ago
> but there's a pretty big gulf between a significant minority who can face massive financial burdens from medical care "significant minority".
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]

anon291 2mo ago

Simply wrong in most states.

sscaryterry 2mo ago
Most? This kinda affirms my point. Where healthcare is free at point of use, the problem is non-existent.
- nradov 2mo ago
  Where healthcare is free at point of use, many of the advanced cancer treatments aren't available at all. This is one of the reasons why the USA is at or near the top in survival rates for most types of cancer.
  - sscaryterry 2mo ago
    See my original comment. These advanced cancer treatments are often not paid for by insurers.
    - nradov 2mo ago
      Which cancer treatments are those?
  - troupo 2mo ago
    Unless you're one of the 15+ million who are disenrolled from Medicaid. Or you're one of the 8.1% uninsured in states who didn't expand ACA: https://academic.oup.com/healthaffairsscholar/article/2/1/qxad083/7511732 https://academic.oup.com/healthaffairsscholar/article/2/1/qx... But sure, the poor should just stop being poor.
- wat10000 2mo ago
  No it doesn't. You said "probably will bankrupt your family." This is not true.

nozzlegear 2mo ago

This is some Reddit ass "America bad" diatribe that doesn't mesh with reality

Levitz 2mo ago

It's actually worrying that people seriously believe stuff like this.