3 ms·

Well, one thing to remember: AI learned from us (See what I did, there?). The training these LLMs got, was from endless human-slop, on sites like LinkedIn, and

Well, one thing to remember: AI learned from us (See what I did, there?). The training these LLMs got, was from endless human-slop, on sites like LinkedIn, and marketing copy, everywhere. In fact, don't be surprised, if we start learning from AI; reversing the process. But I think that it's only a matter of time, before almost everything will be at least touched by AI. I posted this, yesterday[0]. It wasn't a particularly popular comment, but I stand by it. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49219990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49219990

askj18 3mo ago
[flagged]
- ChrisMarshallNY 3mo ago
  > But enjoy your intellectual wheelchair, which for some reason you feel the need to advertise after 40 years of programming. I'm sure it is just in the best interest of future generations ... I love this place. We are such class acts. Have a great day!
matwood 3mo ago
Yeah, people act like this style is new, when it absolutely is not. There's this weird romanticism of the time pre-LLMs where people imply all writing/code was perfect, and only now it's slop. EDIT I also read your linked comment and agree 100%.
- lelanthran 2mo ago
  > Yeah, people act like this style is new, when it absolutely is not. Every time this claim is made I ask for a link to a pre-2022 blog or article that has all those AI tells. I'm still waiting for it. I don't think I will ever receive it.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2mo ago
    It's likely because no one could be bothered to respond. There's plenty there, but it's not their job to fetch it for you. People on the Internet (especially here), seem to think that it's OK to make rude demands of complete strangers, and expect them to spend considerable time, meeting them. I'd rather some rando think they "won the Internet," than spend a bunch of my time, working for free, just to satisfy them. I have better things to do with my time, and I don't really have a lot of investment in what complete strangers think of me. Sometimes, the fox ain't worth the chase.
    - lelanthran 2mo ago
      > There's plenty there, but it's not their job to fetch it for you. It's been asked about 30 times now. If it existed, someone would have posted it. Maybe you.
      - ChrisMarshallNY 2mo ago
        No (see above) One of the things that I learned, about the time I lost my baby teeth, is that making rude demands of people, instead of working with them, is likely to result in exactly the opposite. Chances are good, that you learned this, as well, which might explain the rude demands. They are unlikely to be met, so the matter stays open.
        lelanthran 2mo ago
        If it can't be found, it can't be found *shrug I mean, even the SOTA models couldn't pull up examples when asked, so it's no surprise that HN readers can't find any examples either. They just don't exist...
        ChrisMarshallNY 2mo ago
        I apologize for my inferior communication skills. It appears as if I am unable to make the point clear. It has nothing at all to do with the matter at hand, and everything to do with communication style. Have a great day!
jpease 3mo ago
AI slop: Trained on 100% natural human slop.
Induane 3mo ago
I read your linked comment and I'm bummed out because I agree. The thing is that I LIKE writing code. It's fun. I don't LIKE coding with an LLM. It isn't fun. We can't go back to a place where the professional code is all hand written. But at the same time I'm sad and tired. The joy has been utterly sapped and I don't think I'll be able to do this as a career for much longer.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3mo ago
  Well, I am sorry to hear that, but it hasn’t been my experience. That may have something to do with the way that I use an LLM. I use it as a “pair partner,” not as an agent. Most of the code in my apps is mine, but I do ask the LLM to take care of some of the “overhead” tasks, such as minor utility functions. In fact, I just got done, ripping out a bunch of code the LLM wrote, in my current app, and replacing it with my own work. It seems that I can’t really ask the LLM to do much beyond function level, without it going sideways. I simply can’t understand people shipping entire, vibe-coded apps. If I let the LLM write my whole app, it would be hot garbage.
  - cindyllm 3mo ago
    [dead]
- Breza 2mo ago
  The other day, I was working with Polars and decided to go old school with everything. I asked my questions on udm14.com and wrote the code in Notepad++. It was invigorating. Reminded me why I started coding in the first place.

askj18 3mo ago

[flagged]

ChrisMarshallNY 3mo ago
> But enjoy your intellectual wheelchair, which for some reason you feel the need to advertise after 40 years of programming. I'm sure it is just in the best interest of future generations ... I love this place. We are such class acts. Have a great day!

matwood 3mo ago

Yeah, people act like this style is new, when it absolutely is not. There's this weird romanticism of the time pre-LLMs where people imply all writing/code was perfect, and only now it's slop. EDIT I also read your linked comment and agree 100%.

lelanthran 2mo ago
> Yeah, people act like this style is new, when it absolutely is not. Every time this claim is made I ask for a link to a pre-2022 blog or article that has all those AI tells. I'm still waiting for it. I don't think I will ever receive it.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2mo ago
  It's likely because no one could be bothered to respond. There's plenty there, but it's not their job to fetch it for you. People on the Internet (especially here), seem to think that it's OK to make rude demands of complete strangers, and expect them to spend considerable time, meeting them. I'd rather some rando think they "won the Internet," than spend a bunch of my time, working for free, just to satisfy them. I have better things to do with my time, and I don't really have a lot of investment in what complete strangers think of me. Sometimes, the fox ain't worth the chase.
  - lelanthran 2mo ago
    > There's plenty there, but it's not their job to fetch it for you. It's been asked about 30 times now. If it existed, someone would have posted it. Maybe you.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 2mo ago
      No (see above) One of the things that I learned, about the time I lost my baby teeth, is that making rude demands of people, instead of working with them, is likely to result in exactly the opposite. Chances are good, that you learned this, as well, which might explain the rude demands. They are unlikely to be met, so the matter stays open.
      - lelanthran 2mo ago
        If it can't be found, it can't be found *shrug I mean, even the SOTA models couldn't pull up examples when asked, so it's no surprise that HN readers can't find any examples either. They just don't exist...
        ChrisMarshallNY 2mo ago
        I apologize for my inferior communication skills. It appears as if I am unable to make the point clear. It has nothing at all to do with the matter at hand, and everything to do with communication style. Have a great day!

jpease 3mo ago

AI slop: Trained on 100% natural human slop.

Induane 3mo ago

I read your linked comment and I'm bummed out because I agree. The thing is that I LIKE writing code. It's fun. I don't LIKE coding with an LLM. It isn't fun. We can't go back to a place where the professional code is all hand written. But at the same time I'm sad and tired. The joy has been utterly sapped and I don't think I'll be able to do this as a career for much longer.

ChrisMarshallNY 3mo ago
Well, I am sorry to hear that, but it hasn’t been my experience. That may have something to do with the way that I use an LLM. I use it as a “pair partner,” not as an agent. Most of the code in my apps is mine, but I do ask the LLM to take care of some of the “overhead” tasks, such as minor utility functions. In fact, I just got done, ripping out a bunch of code the LLM wrote, in my current app, and replacing it with my own work. It seems that I can’t really ask the LLM to do much beyond function level, without it going sideways. I simply can’t understand people shipping entire, vibe-coded apps. If I let the LLM write my whole app, it would be hot garbage.
- cindyllm 3mo ago
  [dead]
Breza 2mo ago
The other day, I was working with Polars and decided to go old school with everything. I asked my questions on udm14.com and wrote the code in Notepad++. It was invigorating. Reminded me why I started coding in the first place.