6 ms·

Amazon circumvents Gilroy community vote for AI data center

60 points by mikhael 2mo ago

PunchyHamster 2mo ago
[flagged]
- frogperson 2mo ago
  the police and entire justice system are on the side of capital. The peoples history of the united States by Howard Zinn covers many attempts Luke this. he makes a case for what works and what doesn't. its a large book, but you can find good summaries online.
  - akagusu 2mo ago
    > the police and entire justice system are on the side of capital This entire system was created by the capital for the capital.
  - fragmede 2mo ago
    Using the book as a guide, the DCs get built, the public pays for it in ways more than initially estimated, profits flow to private capital owners, and then there's a poltical fight over taxes, electricity, and land.
rvz 2mo ago
So when it comes down to choice and where to park the money: The votes of humans matter less than the power of AI agents. Amazon believes that the AI agents need a new home more than humans do and would rather build homes for these agents than for humans. But of course, the advantages are obvious to them: 1) 24/7 intelligence when you need it. 2) Tokens can be generated cheaply, meaning lots of work for 1 / 100th of the price of a human. 3) Knowledge can stay with the agent and will never leave the company and the agent has no breaks or weekends. No wonder Amazon saw something like this, wanted it so badly and ignored humans to build more homes for c̶l̶a̶n̶k̶e̶r̶s̶ AI agents. Such a sad state of affairs.
- sokoloff 2mo ago
  > Amazon believes that the AI agents need a new home more than humans do and would rather build homes for these agents than for humans. I can only imagine the level of outrage that would instantly ensue if Amazon announced they were getting into the home-building business.
thenewnewguy 2mo ago
Bias Disclaimer: Amazon pays my salary currently, although my job doesn't have anything to do with datacenter construction. Maybe I missed it, but the article doesn't seem to say what the "circumvention"/"loophole" that Amazon used was? It seems like Amazon went through the correct city permitting/legal processes years ago, and now residents want to complain about it years later because data centers are this year's culture war hot topic? Like if Amazon followed the official process here, what's the problem? At some point you have to declare an approval final and allow a company to move forward with construction.
- ovao 2mo ago
  That was my read as well: > ...the site had gone through a long approval process, which required public notices and public-comment periods. However, when Gilroy resident Rosa Rodriguez wanted to state her concern about the damage a data center can do to a region suffering from drought, she was told that the comment period had already lapsed in 2024 Is the "circumvention" the headline refers to that public commentary periods are time-boxed? But how could they not be time-boxed? In fairness to the residents, the negative implications of data centers was probably not well known to them in 2024, but it seems to me that (at least based on the article) all the processes & rules were followed.
  - aragilar 2mo ago
    But if new evidence comes in which changes the basis for approval (e.g. lets say you need to do some earthworks and as part of performing them it becomes apparent these earthworks will damage nearby buildings), presumably the approval can be revoked until suitable changes can be made (or if that's not possible, the approval no longer holds)? The linked Wall Street Journal appears to give more details, suggesting this went through a fast-track process (with seemingly minimum community input). I'd argue fast-tracking projects is always a bad idea, as is trying to route around community consultation (given it's likely more expensive in the long run).
    - ianm218 2mo ago
      > I'd argue fast-tracking projects is always a bad idea, as is trying to route around community consultation Building infrastructure and housing in the US is painfully slow and a huge tax on everyone, almost everything should be fast tracked. We have some of the most productive economic zones in the world (SF <-> LA, Boston <-> DC corridor) and we have made it largely illegal to build housing and transit in these areas due to bureaucracy and red tape. Do you think the high speed rail between SF and LA needs more rounds of community input?
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
derektank 2mo ago
This headline seems misleading at best. There was, as far as I can tell reading both this piece and the original reporting in the WSJ[0], no community vote for or against data center construction. What appears to have happened is that Amazon simply followed the existing permitting rules for other industrial construction, “Amazon’s project was approved with a single signature—by the town’s community-development director—because it met zoning criteria set 45 years ago for industrial development along a freeway.”[0] The existing zoning laws did not require a public vote to receive a permit, so I don’t understand in what way a public vote was “circumvented”. It’s certainly fair for residents to ask for more input in general on permitting or zoning, and even to place explicit restriction on data centers going forward, but it seems like what people want is an ex post facto law, which is nigh universally bad law. [0] https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-in-a-california-town-without-anyone-noticing-8610bb67 https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-i...
- ajross 2mo ago
  Two things can be true: the construction can be technically legal and at clear odds with community opinion. I mean, yes. Amazon can likely do this. But is this strategy really in keeping with its long term interests? I mean, look at the comments in the rest of this very topic. Do you want a communist insurrection? This is literally how you get communist insurrections. People are fucking pissed, and the bourge^M^M^M^M funding-focused growth-minded startup set here are throwing gasoline on the fire.
  - arcbyte 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Avicebron 2mo ago
      "Nobody intelligent opposes dovecote construction"* *French nobility circa 1789
    - InsideOutSanta 2mo ago
      5G towers have no negative externalities except looking kinda dorky. In fact, they're nice; they improve your reception. The same cannot be said for data centers. (Instead of just downvoting this, I'd appreciate it if you could point out exactly what I said is wrong. Thanks.)
arjie 2mo ago
Everything here seems fine. Providing everyone with a veto on all things is a surefire way to get nothing. Instead we have a system where we have a set of rules and someone who meets those rules objectively gets to make something. This is way better. I’m glad they were able to build their datacenter.
- ACCount37 2mo ago
  If you give NIMBYs as much as an inch of decision-making power, they'll find a way of making you regret it. For all the talk of "negative externalities", they sure aren't shy about imposing them on others.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Is a NIMBY a type of person or is it an incentive structure?
    - ACCount37 2mo ago
      Both? People are very easy to FUD up about any local development, and they rarely bear any costs of denying those development. Being eager to uncritically lap up any FUD thrown your way is definitely a personal failing. Let alone spreading that FUD. But the fact that NIMBYs are allowed to wield an outsized power and do things like stall nuclear power for decades? That companies can engage in underhanded "find an activist group that wants to NIMBY in an area where the competitor is trying to build and then just fund it"? Failure of an incentive structure.
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        What should be the correct procedure if I want to build, let's say, a pig farm that'll be extremely smelly for miles? Whose agreement should I have to get, and whose shouldn't I have to get?
  - cindyllm 2mo ago
    [dead]
essive 2mo ago
Everyone should read "Spaces of Global Capitalism: A Theory of Uneven Geographical Development" by David Harvey. Written 25 years ago, it accurately predicts the data center trend - geography usurped by capatalistic growth.
LogicFailsMe 2mo ago
A modest proposal, based on this article: https://www.fastcompany.com/3026312/what-silicon-valley-would-look-like-if-tech-companies-built-themselves-cities https://www.fastcompany.com/3026312/what-silicon-valley-woul... Silicon Valley tech should build mixed use high rise housing and datacenters right on their corporate campuses. All infrastructure to make this a reality is on them to provide. Zuck will be given a special exemption that allows him to build into the parts of that stinky salt marsh already approved for his semiabandoned shantytown.
1vuio0pswjnm7 2mo ago
1786112942 | How Amazon Built a Data Center in a California Town Without Anyone Noticing | https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-in-a-california-town-without-anyone-noticing-8610bb67 https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-i... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49210999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49210999 1786206931 | Amazon Built a Data Center in a California Town Without Anyone Noticing | https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-in-a-california-town-without-anyone-noticing-8610bb67 https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-i... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49223357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49223357

60 points by mikhael 2mo ago

PunchyHamster 2mo ago

[flagged]

frogperson 2mo ago
the police and entire justice system are on the side of capital. The peoples history of the united States by Howard Zinn covers many attempts Luke this. he makes a case for what works and what doesn't. its a large book, but you can find good summaries online.
- akagusu 2mo ago
  > the police and entire justice system are on the side of capital This entire system was created by the capital for the capital.
- fragmede 2mo ago
  Using the book as a guide, the DCs get built, the public pays for it in ways more than initially estimated, profits flow to private capital owners, and then there's a poltical fight over taxes, electricity, and land.

rvz 2mo ago

So when it comes down to choice and where to park the money: The votes of humans matter less than the power of AI agents. Amazon believes that the AI agents need a new home more than humans do and would rather build homes for these agents than for humans. But of course, the advantages are obvious to them: 1) 24/7 intelligence when you need it. 2) Tokens can be generated cheaply, meaning lots of work for 1 / 100th of the price of a human. 3) Knowledge can stay with the agent and will never leave the company and the agent has no breaks or weekends. No wonder Amazon saw something like this, wanted it so badly and ignored humans to build more homes for c̶l̶a̶n̶k̶e̶r̶s̶ AI agents. Such a sad state of affairs.

sokoloff 2mo ago
> Amazon believes that the AI agents need a new home more than humans do and would rather build homes for these agents than for humans. I can only imagine the level of outrage that would instantly ensue if Amazon announced they were getting into the home-building business.

thenewnewguy 2mo ago

Bias Disclaimer: Amazon pays my salary currently, although my job doesn't have anything to do with datacenter construction. Maybe I missed it, but the article doesn't seem to say what the "circumvention"/"loophole" that Amazon used was? It seems like Amazon went through the correct city permitting/legal processes years ago, and now residents want to complain about it years later because data centers are this year's culture war hot topic? Like if Amazon followed the official process here, what's the problem? At some point you have to declare an approval final and allow a company to move forward with construction.

ovao 2mo ago
That was my read as well: > ...the site had gone through a long approval process, which required public notices and public-comment periods. However, when Gilroy resident Rosa Rodriguez wanted to state her concern about the damage a data center can do to a region suffering from drought, she was told that the comment period had already lapsed in 2024 Is the "circumvention" the headline refers to that public commentary periods are time-boxed? But how could they not be time-boxed? In fairness to the residents, the negative implications of data centers was probably not well known to them in 2024, but it seems to me that (at least based on the article) all the processes & rules were followed.
- aragilar 2mo ago
  But if new evidence comes in which changes the basis for approval (e.g. lets say you need to do some earthworks and as part of performing them it becomes apparent these earthworks will damage nearby buildings), presumably the approval can be revoked until suitable changes can be made (or if that's not possible, the approval no longer holds)? The linked Wall Street Journal appears to give more details, suggesting this went through a fast-track process (with seemingly minimum community input). I'd argue fast-tracking projects is always a bad idea, as is trying to route around community consultation (given it's likely more expensive in the long run).
  - ianm218 2mo ago
    > I'd argue fast-tracking projects is always a bad idea, as is trying to route around community consultation Building infrastructure and housing in the US is painfully slow and a huge tax on everyone, almost everything should be fast tracked. We have some of the most productive economic zones in the world (SF <-> LA, Boston <-> DC corridor) and we have made it largely illegal to build housing and transit in these areas due to bureaucracy and red tape. Do you think the high speed rail between SF and LA needs more rounds of community input?

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

derektank 2mo ago

This headline seems misleading at best. There was, as far as I can tell reading both this piece and the original reporting in the WSJ[0], no community vote for or against data center construction. What appears to have happened is that Amazon simply followed the existing permitting rules for other industrial construction, “Amazon’s project was approved with a single signature—by the town’s community-development director—because it met zoning criteria set 45 years ago for industrial development along a freeway.”[0] The existing zoning laws did not require a public vote to receive a permit, so I don’t understand in what way a public vote was “circumvented”. It’s certainly fair for residents to ask for more input in general on permitting or zoning, and even to place explicit restriction on data centers going forward, but it seems like what people want is an ex post facto law, which is nigh universally bad law. [0] https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-in-a-california-town-without-anyone-noticing-8610bb67 https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-i...

ajross 2mo ago
Two things can be true: the construction can be technically legal and at clear odds with community opinion. I mean, yes. Amazon can likely do this. But is this strategy really in keeping with its long term interests? I mean, look at the comments in the rest of this very topic. Do you want a communist insurrection? This is literally how you get communist insurrections. People are fucking pissed, and the bourge^M^M^M^M funding-focused growth-minded startup set here are throwing gasoline on the fire.
- arcbyte 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Avicebron 2mo ago
    "Nobody intelligent opposes dovecote construction"* *French nobility circa 1789
  - InsideOutSanta 2mo ago
    5G towers have no negative externalities except looking kinda dorky. In fact, they're nice; they improve your reception. The same cannot be said for data centers. (Instead of just downvoting this, I'd appreciate it if you could point out exactly what I said is wrong. Thanks.)

arjie 2mo ago

Everything here seems fine. Providing everyone with a veto on all things is a surefire way to get nothing. Instead we have a system where we have a set of rules and someone who meets those rules objectively gets to make something. This is way better. I’m glad they were able to build their datacenter.

ACCount37 2mo ago
If you give NIMBYs as much as an inch of decision-making power, they'll find a way of making you regret it. For all the talk of "negative externalities", they sure aren't shy about imposing them on others.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Is a NIMBY a type of person or is it an incentive structure?
  - ACCount37 2mo ago
    Both? People are very easy to FUD up about any local development, and they rarely bear any costs of denying those development. Being eager to uncritically lap up any FUD thrown your way is definitely a personal failing. Let alone spreading that FUD. But the fact that NIMBYs are allowed to wield an outsized power and do things like stall nuclear power for decades? That companies can engage in underhanded "find an activist group that wants to NIMBY in an area where the competitor is trying to build and then just fund it"? Failure of an incentive structure.
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      What should be the correct procedure if I want to build, let's say, a pig farm that'll be extremely smelly for miles? Whose agreement should I have to get, and whose shouldn't I have to get?
- cindyllm 2mo ago
  [dead]

essive 2mo ago

Everyone should read "Spaces of Global Capitalism: A Theory of Uneven Geographical Development" by David Harvey. Written 25 years ago, it accurately predicts the data center trend - geography usurped by capatalistic growth.

LogicFailsMe 2mo ago

A modest proposal, based on this article: https://www.fastcompany.com/3026312/what-silicon-valley-would-look-like-if-tech-companies-built-themselves-cities https://www.fastcompany.com/3026312/what-silicon-valley-woul... Silicon Valley tech should build mixed use high rise housing and datacenters right on their corporate campuses. All infrastructure to make this a reality is on them to provide. Zuck will be given a special exemption that allows him to build into the parts of that stinky salt marsh already approved for his semiabandoned shantytown.

1vuio0pswjnm7 2mo ago

1786112942 | How Amazon Built a Data Center in a California Town Without Anyone Noticing | https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-in-a-california-town-without-anyone-noticing-8610bb67 https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-i... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49210999 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49210999 1786206931 | Amazon Built a Data Center in a California Town Without Anyone Noticing | https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-in-a-california-town-without-anyone-noticing-8610bb67 https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-amazon-built-a-data-center-i... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49223357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49223357