4 ms·

There appears to be a bamboo-derived plastic out there with high tensile strength, but I don't think it'd work for this application, because it degrades within

by avesi 2mo ago

There appears to be a bamboo-derived plastic out there with high tensile strength, but I don't think it'd work for this application, because it degrades within 50 days of being buried in soil. I wonder if being in gravel would delay that, due to the different microbes present? It seems like there are usually biobased solutions out there, but they aren't as cost-effective or easy to procure as the forever plastics, so organizations don't bother with them. Perhaps some kind of incentive would get us moving in the right direction.

inigyou 2mo ago
You can have material that biodegrades, or material that doesn't biodegrade. But you can't have material that doesn't biodegrade that biodegrades. Plastic is a wonder material because it's a forever material.
- hansvm 2mo ago
  That reminds me of a fun research presentation I saw a decade ago. They engineered a bioplastic which would break down on sustained contact with water. While trying to come up with applications, they proposed reducing plastic consumption by using it for ... water bottles.
- strken 2mo ago
  There's a bit of nuance here. A material which doesn't biodegrade but is inert, a material which biodegrades but only when exposed to light or moisture or heat, a material which biodegrades into something else which is in turn inert, etc. Not really relevant to geocells but quite relevant for e.g. timber, which might last a hundred years in a roof but start to rot in six months of composting.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Plastic is inert, but microplastics harm us anyway, and don't go away, because it's inert.
    - strken 2mo ago
      Plastics tend to be more chemically active than a lot of rocks, for example. Although that's not going to protect you from crystalline dust from silica and asbestos.
- PunchyHamster 2mo ago
  The problem with plastic is that it often doesn't biodegrade but loses capability with time. So you end up with it turning to rubble after few decades but still polluting the environment
- Dylan16807 2mo ago
  Plastic that disappeared after 50 or 100 years would still be very useful for making things. Plastic for packaging only needs to last months or years. You need to avoid certain kinds of biodegradation but you don't need "forever". And in particular if you could make very small pieces biodegrade quickly, and only those, you'd instantly solve microplastics.
27183 2mo ago
There are species of wood that do very well buried. Black locust is known to last 100yr buried. I wonder if you could scale up the effect using a larger grid of black locust 2x8s [edit] or even smaller dimension mill scrap.

by avesi 2mo ago

inigyou 2mo ago

You can have material that biodegrades, or material that doesn't biodegrade. But you can't have material that doesn't biodegrade that biodegrades. Plastic is a wonder material because it's a forever material.

hansvm 2mo ago
That reminds me of a fun research presentation I saw a decade ago. They engineered a bioplastic which would break down on sustained contact with water. While trying to come up with applications, they proposed reducing plastic consumption by using it for ... water bottles.
strken 2mo ago
There's a bit of nuance here. A material which doesn't biodegrade but is inert, a material which biodegrades but only when exposed to light or moisture or heat, a material which biodegrades into something else which is in turn inert, etc. Not really relevant to geocells but quite relevant for e.g. timber, which might last a hundred years in a roof but start to rot in six months of composting.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Plastic is inert, but microplastics harm us anyway, and don't go away, because it's inert.
  - strken 2mo ago
    Plastics tend to be more chemically active than a lot of rocks, for example. Although that's not going to protect you from crystalline dust from silica and asbestos.
PunchyHamster 2mo ago
The problem with plastic is that it often doesn't biodegrade but loses capability with time. So you end up with it turning to rubble after few decades but still polluting the environment
Dylan16807 2mo ago
Plastic that disappeared after 50 or 100 years would still be very useful for making things. Plastic for packaging only needs to last months or years. You need to avoid certain kinds of biodegradation but you don't need "forever". And in particular if you could make very small pieces biodegrade quickly, and only those, you'd instantly solve microplastics.

27183 2mo ago

There are species of wood that do very well buried. Black locust is known to last 100yr buried. I wonder if you could scale up the effect using a larger grid of black locust 2x8s [edit] or even smaller dimension mill scrap.