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I still think the best bang for your buck is an old desktop PC. Something like an i5 with 8GB RAM and an SSD will suit 99% of home server uses with capacity to

I still think the best bang for your buck is an old desktop PC. Something like an i5 with 8GB RAM and an SSD will suit 99% of home server uses with capacity to spare. Even in this environment of inflated hardware prices, you can get one for a reasonable price. Although I do see the appeal in getting unconventional hardware to do what you want, just for the love of the game.

coffeecoders 2mo ago
It only makes sense if we are measuring raw capability per dollar. Once you factor in noise, physical size, idle power, battery etc, I think the calculation changes. For a home sever that's mostly idle, it is almost like commuting in a pickup truck.
- alightsoul 2mo ago
  also factoring in spare hardware. most people have more spare phones than PCs.
- auspiv 2mo ago
  Modern dell desktops (like 8th gen+) idle around 10W. Raspberry pi isn’t saving much
  - lostlogin 2mo ago
    I’m impressed with that. I had a Nuc 9 extreme with a 10gb SFP card in it. It averaged 69w. The Mac Mini I replaced it with uses just under 5w. A Mini is possible the worst bang for buck. Also, the horror that that is Desktop Docker can’t be over emphasised. I know there are better ways of using Docker on a Mac, but having got something working I can’t face rebuilding it.
    - microtonal 2mo ago
      But when starting from scratch, it might be better to get an older Mini that is supported by Asahi and run Linux on it.
    - kalleboo 2mo ago
      My home router is a Lenovo ThinkCentre Tiny with a Core i3-8100T with a dual 10Gbit SFP in it (1x DAC, 1x 10GBase-T) and it idles at 14W, routing 10gbit full bore 24W. I got it for $80 I also have some Fujitsu office machine I picked up for $50 as my "I need to run some random task on a physical linux box" machine with an i5-7500 and it idles at 15W
    - sgt 2mo ago
      What's wrong with Docker desktop? Been using it everyday for at least 5 years.
      - chrisldgk 2mo ago
        It’s sluggish, it’s incredibly bloated with all the services that Docker (the company) wants to sell you and the UI is badly designed. OrbStack is my go-to when it comes to running docker on Mac. It also uses macOS native containerization APIs so containers will be a bit more performant than they would (at least use to) be on Docker Desktop. Another good approach if you’re fine without a GUI or want to bring your own is just ‚brew install docker‘.
        sgt 2mo ago
        I'll check it out. Yes, no UI needed. I run Docker Desktop but I don't think I've used the UI more than on ce.
        knowaveragejoe 2mo ago
        The main gotcha I encountered with orbstack was with pulling down internally built amd64 images and trying to run them on apple silicon. I just remember constantly running into issues and going back to docker desktop as a result, even if their solution is janky in its own way.
      - cgyvbunji 2mo ago
        Not much, it's an "I use arch btw" kind of thing but for docker.
      - lostlogin 2mo ago
        Trying to get it to open on startup and start containers in a particular order is a little finicky. But the real hell is trying to get it to start containers after the network shares have connected. I’ve got it working, but compared to doing it in compose, it’s awful.
    - Peanuts99 2mo ago
      Some of those SFP cards can use quite a bit of energy on their own. They're not designed with energy efficiency in mind. I've got an Optiplex with an i5 and two hard drives and that idles around 12W when idling.
  - p0w3n3d 2mo ago
    I made calculations and got the same results. Bought low profile and as a server
- TacticalCoder 2mo ago
  My server is an extremely quiet Xeon workstation: unlike 1U servers, workstation are typically quiet. The good thing with a Xeon workstation is that it supports ECC RAM only and there are plenty used. For there's no market for used Xeon systems, so you can find stuff like 22-cores / 44-threads CPUs for $25 or something. Some mod Xeon systems to use regular PC PSU like Be Quiet! ones and Noctua fans, etc. but my HP Z440 workstation is so quiet already I didn't need to. In my case it's an headless server and is sits between the vacuum cleaner and the cat's food: there are literally only two cables connected to it, the power cable and the ethernet cable. I can live with the footprint of one tower. I run many VMs and containers inside those VMs: Git server, pastebin, NAS, containerized/VM-isolated AI agents, etc. but I don't need it to be up 24/7. I basically only need those when I'm working. So electricity usage ain't a big concern to me as it's more like running 8/7. I don't feel like I'm commuting in a pickup truck: I feel like I have the perfect machine for the task.
  - bruckie 2mo ago
    Where can you buy a workstation like that for so little?
mikepurvis 2mo ago
This is my situation exactly. Got an i5-4570 with 16GB, no GPU, running Unraid with a bunch of containers for Jellyfin, qBittorrent, Crafty Controller (minecraft), HomeAssistant, etc. I'm using a PCIe expansion card to get double NVMe drives for the cache disk, and then three (up to five) 3.5" spinning 8TB drives for long term. I tried really hard to get it on 32GB but sadly the motherboard only has two slots and only supports 8GB DDR3 modules. I literally ordered some of the rare late-generation 16GB ones and it refused to boot, with no firmware updates available from the vendor (Advantech, board is an AIMB-274).
- TacticalCoder 2mo ago
  > I tried really hard to get it on 32GB but sadly the motherboard only has two slots and only supports 8GB DDR3 modules. Buy a refurbished Xeon workstation with DDR4 RAM. If you're in the US or China they're basically free and if you're in the EU, they aren't too pricey (like you can definitely find ones for less than 200 EUR). Slap your double NVMe expansion card, your two NVMEs and your 3 3.5" spinning rust in it. If the workstation doesn't come with a Xeon with lots of cores, just buy one on eBay for $25.
  - mikepurvis 2mo ago
    I like my little jonsbo N2 case, and really I haven't hit actual perf limits yet, so I'm fine for it to chug along as-is for as long as I can get it to.
hakunin 2mo ago
Yep. My 2010 server does everything I need incredibly well, and I see no point in retiring it anytime soon. ASRock H67M-ITX, i3 2.5GHz, 16GB DDR3 1333Mhz, 2TB+4TB SSDs, DVD-RW, in this Mini-ITX Antec case[1]. [1]: https://www.antec.com/product/case/isk300-150 https://www.antec.com/product/case/isk300-150
- lucb1e 2mo ago
  What's the idle draw on that?
  - hakunin 2mo ago
    I don't have a measured plug on it, but estimate roughly around ~32-38w.
wraptile 2mo ago
I just bought a refurbished Lenovo k14 with 32gb of ram and Corei7-1165G7 with 500gb for 350$ which I'll use as my 2nd home server. My first home server is a 2nd hand gaming PC that I bought for 500$ with 32gb and 7700rx video card that I use for GPU based tasks but it's quite audible when it's working so wife and I agreed it has no place in the living room anymore and is being deported to the corner of my office. You can still find really good bargains for home servers from refurbished good computers, and given how well solved tech reliability is now, it's really not worth buying new.
jeppester 2mo ago
Second hand SFF office PCs are super good for this. Machines like Lenovo Thinkcentre or Dell Optiplex. Because there are so many of them (at least in Denmark where I live) they are pretty cheap and it's easy to get one with an I-processor. My current machine's idle draw is also very low at 5-6w.* *Based on some quick research it does seem that I was a bit lucky with mine, so I guess it's fair to mention that mileage may vary.
sourcecodeplz 2mo ago
not to mention avoiding all the headaches with android
yohannparis 2mo ago
I mean, it's hard to beat almost free. The phone was being unused, therefore it was free hardware for this project.
Denatonium 2mo ago
Old thin clients can be good deals too. Dell Wyse 5070s are great for basic tasks, especially if you can get the Pentium Silver J5005 models. They take M.2 SATA SSDs and they don't have UEFI whitelists on their M.2 WLAN cards, meaning you can get one of those M.2 A+E key SATA cards and connect a SATA HDD to it. Expect to pay around $40-$50 for a Dell Wyse 5070 with 4GB of RAM and eMMC storage. You can easily add an SSD, and since it takes M.2 SATA SSDs, you can buy lightly used ones relatively inexpensively. Old Optiplex are also good deals. I bought a Dell Optiplex 5070 MT for $150 for myself and 2 Dell Optiplex 3070 SFF computers for $75 each to replace my mom's aging Windows 7 PC. All 3 computers take DDR4 and M.2 NVMe SSDs and have an Intel i5-9500 CPU that will also run Windows 11 pretty well, if you're into masochism that is.

coffeecoders 2mo ago

It only makes sense if we are measuring raw capability per dollar. Once you factor in noise, physical size, idle power, battery etc, I think the calculation changes. For a home sever that's mostly idle, it is almost like commuting in a pickup truck.

alightsoul 2mo ago
also factoring in spare hardware. most people have more spare phones than PCs.
auspiv 2mo ago
Modern dell desktops (like 8th gen+) idle around 10W. Raspberry pi isn’t saving much
- lostlogin 2mo ago
  I’m impressed with that. I had a Nuc 9 extreme with a 10gb SFP card in it. It averaged 69w. The Mac Mini I replaced it with uses just under 5w. A Mini is possible the worst bang for buck. Also, the horror that that is Desktop Docker can’t be over emphasised. I know there are better ways of using Docker on a Mac, but having got something working I can’t face rebuilding it.
  - microtonal 2mo ago
    But when starting from scratch, it might be better to get an older Mini that is supported by Asahi and run Linux on it.
  - kalleboo 2mo ago
    My home router is a Lenovo ThinkCentre Tiny with a Core i3-8100T with a dual 10Gbit SFP in it (1x DAC, 1x 10GBase-T) and it idles at 14W, routing 10gbit full bore 24W. I got it for $80 I also have some Fujitsu office machine I picked up for $50 as my "I need to run some random task on a physical linux box" machine with an i5-7500 and it idles at 15W
  - sgt 2mo ago
    What's wrong with Docker desktop? Been using it everyday for at least 5 years.
    - chrisldgk 2mo ago
      It’s sluggish, it’s incredibly bloated with all the services that Docker (the company) wants to sell you and the UI is badly designed. OrbStack is my go-to when it comes to running docker on Mac. It also uses macOS native containerization APIs so containers will be a bit more performant than they would (at least use to) be on Docker Desktop. Another good approach if you’re fine without a GUI or want to bring your own is just ‚brew install docker‘.
      - sgt 2mo ago
        I'll check it out. Yes, no UI needed. I run Docker Desktop but I don't think I've used the UI more than on ce.
      - knowaveragejoe 2mo ago
        The main gotcha I encountered with orbstack was with pulling down internally built amd64 images and trying to run them on apple silicon. I just remember constantly running into issues and going back to docker desktop as a result, even if their solution is janky in its own way.
    - cgyvbunji 2mo ago
      Not much, it's an "I use arch btw" kind of thing but for docker.
    - lostlogin 2mo ago
      Trying to get it to open on startup and start containers in a particular order is a little finicky. But the real hell is trying to get it to start containers after the network shares have connected. I’ve got it working, but compared to doing it in compose, it’s awful.
  - Peanuts99 2mo ago
    Some of those SFP cards can use quite a bit of energy on their own. They're not designed with energy efficiency in mind. I've got an Optiplex with an i5 and two hard drives and that idles around 12W when idling.
- p0w3n3d 2mo ago
  I made calculations and got the same results. Bought low profile and as a server
TacticalCoder 2mo ago
My server is an extremely quiet Xeon workstation: unlike 1U servers, workstation are typically quiet. The good thing with a Xeon workstation is that it supports ECC RAM only and there are plenty used. For there's no market for used Xeon systems, so you can find stuff like 22-cores / 44-threads CPUs for $25 or something. Some mod Xeon systems to use regular PC PSU like Be Quiet! ones and Noctua fans, etc. but my HP Z440 workstation is so quiet already I didn't need to. In my case it's an headless server and is sits between the vacuum cleaner and the cat's food: there are literally only two cables connected to it, the power cable and the ethernet cable. I can live with the footprint of one tower. I run many VMs and containers inside those VMs: Git server, pastebin, NAS, containerized/VM-isolated AI agents, etc. but I don't need it to be up 24/7. I basically only need those when I'm working. So electricity usage ain't a big concern to me as it's more like running 8/7. I don't feel like I'm commuting in a pickup truck: I feel like I have the perfect machine for the task.
- bruckie 2mo ago
  Where can you buy a workstation like that for so little?

mikepurvis 2mo ago

This is my situation exactly. Got an i5-4570 with 16GB, no GPU, running Unraid with a bunch of containers for Jellyfin, qBittorrent, Crafty Controller (minecraft), HomeAssistant, etc. I'm using a PCIe expansion card to get double NVMe drives for the cache disk, and then three (up to five) 3.5" spinning 8TB drives for long term. I tried really hard to get it on 32GB but sadly the motherboard only has two slots and only supports 8GB DDR3 modules. I literally ordered some of the rare late-generation 16GB ones and it refused to boot, with no firmware updates available from the vendor (Advantech, board is an AIMB-274).

TacticalCoder 2mo ago
> I tried really hard to get it on 32GB but sadly the motherboard only has two slots and only supports 8GB DDR3 modules. Buy a refurbished Xeon workstation with DDR4 RAM. If you're in the US or China they're basically free and if you're in the EU, they aren't too pricey (like you can definitely find ones for less than 200 EUR). Slap your double NVMe expansion card, your two NVMEs and your 3 3.5" spinning rust in it. If the workstation doesn't come with a Xeon with lots of cores, just buy one on eBay for $25.
- mikepurvis 2mo ago
  I like my little jonsbo N2 case, and really I haven't hit actual perf limits yet, so I'm fine for it to chug along as-is for as long as I can get it to.

hakunin 2mo ago

Yep. My 2010 server does everything I need incredibly well, and I see no point in retiring it anytime soon. ASRock H67M-ITX, i3 2.5GHz, 16GB DDR3 1333Mhz, 2TB+4TB SSDs, DVD-RW, in this Mini-ITX Antec case[1]. [1]: https://www.antec.com/product/case/isk300-150 https://www.antec.com/product/case/isk300-150

lucb1e 2mo ago
What's the idle draw on that?
- hakunin 2mo ago
  I don't have a measured plug on it, but estimate roughly around ~32-38w.

wraptile 2mo ago

I just bought a refurbished Lenovo k14 with 32gb of ram and Corei7-1165G7 with 500gb for 350$ which I'll use as my 2nd home server. My first home server is a 2nd hand gaming PC that I bought for 500$ with 32gb and 7700rx video card that I use for GPU based tasks but it's quite audible when it's working so wife and I agreed it has no place in the living room anymore and is being deported to the corner of my office. You can still find really good bargains for home servers from refurbished good computers, and given how well solved tech reliability is now, it's really not worth buying new.

jeppester 2mo ago

Second hand SFF office PCs are super good for this. Machines like Lenovo Thinkcentre or Dell Optiplex. Because there are so many of them (at least in Denmark where I live) they are pretty cheap and it's easy to get one with an I-processor. My current machine's idle draw is also very low at 5-6w.* *Based on some quick research it does seem that I was a bit lucky with mine, so I guess it's fair to mention that mileage may vary.

sourcecodeplz 2mo ago

not to mention avoiding all the headaches with android

yohannparis 2mo ago

I mean, it's hard to beat almost free. The phone was being unused, therefore it was free hardware for this project.

Denatonium 2mo ago

Old thin clients can be good deals too. Dell Wyse 5070s are great for basic tasks, especially if you can get the Pentium Silver J5005 models. They take M.2 SATA SSDs and they don't have UEFI whitelists on their M.2 WLAN cards, meaning you can get one of those M.2 A+E key SATA cards and connect a SATA HDD to it. Expect to pay around $40-$50 for a Dell Wyse 5070 with 4GB of RAM and eMMC storage. You can easily add an SSD, and since it takes M.2 SATA SSDs, you can buy lightly used ones relatively inexpensively. Old Optiplex are also good deals. I bought a Dell Optiplex 5070 MT for $150 for myself and 2 Dell Optiplex 3070 SFF computers for $75 each to replace my mom's aging Windows 7 PC. All 3 computers take DDR4 and M.2 NVMe SSDs and have an Intel i5-9500 CPU that will also run Windows 11 pretty well, if you're into masochism that is.