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Healthcare has consistently been one of the biggest drivers of US GDP and job growth numbers for years now. This is one of the major things that has helped exp
by eigenspace 2mo ago
Healthcare has consistently been one of the biggest drivers of US GDP and job growth numbers for years now.
This is one of the major things that has helped explain why US consumer sentiment has been so out of step with headline numbers like employment, consumer spending, and GDP.
It also helps explain why there's so many economists are saying they see limited evidence of a "K-shaped economy", and say they see positive numbers throughout the distribution. It's very difficult to choose not to buy healthcare.
- glaslong 2mo agoSo perhaps we'll never get to a better healthcare+insurance market (nee "Free") through government, but eventually we will just all work in healthcare, and barter our nursing and dental skills in secret away from the insurance coders.
- eru 2mo agoYou can move to Singapore, if you want a better healthcare sector. (The UK spends very roughly half of what the US spends on healthcare in terms of percentage of GDP. That's total (public plus private) expenditure. Singapore spends very roughtly half of what the UK spends by the same measure. Health outcomes amongst the three countries are comparable. If anything, Singapore is healthier.)
- toomuchtodo 2mo agoEurope is also excellent in my experience, specifically Portugal and Spain. My health insurance cost for a family of four in Spain is ~$2k/year as someone on a visa. In the US on an employer plan, it was ~$20k/year (premiums, copays, etc).
- asa123 2mo agoI think the commenter you responded to filtered first for countries with outcomes better or exceeding the US? Though I’m not sure Portugal and Spain automatically fall into that category
- toomuchtodo 2mo agoI can only n=1, but most, if not all, experiences we've had obtaining medical care were better in Europe. Care specialist for my autistic kids, primary care, etc. From my unofficial surveys, many folks I know in the US are having a hard time finding various care providers, even if they have insurance. More data on this is always welcome.
- amanaplanacanal 2mo agoIt seems fairly common in the US to have a hard time finding a doctor that will take your insurance, especially so if you are on Medicaid. Even with good insurance, a lot are just not seeing new patients. More and more tasks are being pushed off onto nurse practitioners and physician's assistants. And the number of residencies is still limited by the AMA, so you aren't getting enough new doctors.
- asa123 2mo agoI can believe this; it's my personal and anecdotal evidence (and that which is believed by family) that the maximum quality of US medical care is quite incredible, but any perceived median (accounting for accessibility and cost) is really quite shit
- eru 2mo agoThe US has a lot of the world's best specialists.
- eru 2mo agoOh, I picked Singapore, because I moved here. I picked US because that was the topic under discussion. And Britain because the parent comment talked about 'free' healthcare.
- asa123 2mo agocomplete misreading between the lines on my part then apologies
- ricardobayes 2mo agoYes and for something rare or complex, you can always fall back on the public health insurance.
- toomuchtodo 2mo agoI appreciate the collectivism and it is a component of why I am happy to pay Europe any of the taxes they ask for.
- eru 2mo agoA quick search suggests that Spain spends around 9.3% of gdp on healthcare. The UK spends around 10.9%. Singapore is around 5.5%.
- toomuchtodo 2mo agoWhile interesting facts, this is typically not the primary criteria which people use to decide where to expat to, versus availability and affordability. I cannot speak to the residency requirements of Singapore, but those of western Europe are very generous, as some who has helped folks leave the US for there. If you are in Spain on a tourist visa, and apply for the equivalent of a digital nomad visa while in country, you get three years as a temporary resident. At three years, you re-apply for another two years, and after those five years you can apply for permanent residency. 80% of your income must come from outside of Spain. They’ll even take a letter from a US W2 employer as income verification. If you have any resources you can recommend on immigrating to Singapore that would be helpful and relevant for folks considering it as an option (whether on an employment, student, or pension/non lucrative visa), I welcome them to add to my resources for distribution to those seeking an exit strategy. Thank you in advance. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47161587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47161587 (resources)
- eru 2mo agoOh, I was purely talking about what healthcare costs society. I love it in Singapore, but if you don't want to live in a steam sauna, there are better countries for you. And if you are an American, I guess you don't even benefit from our more enlightened tax system anyway.
- toomuchtodo 2mo ago> And if you are an American, I guess you don't even benefit from our more enlightened tax system anyway. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore... > If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude your foreign earnings from income up to an amount that is adjusted annually for inflation. In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts. So there are mechanisms by which to avoid paying income tax to the US as as someone with a potential US tax liability living and working abroad, although it can be a facts intensive situation. Think like a Hacker, this is just another system and set of rules to hack ("How can I live outside the US, maximize my quality of life, pay the taxes due to my residency jurisdiction, while avoiding paying as much US federal income tax as possible?"). (For the 2026 tax year, the maximum Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) is $132,900 per qualifying person, an increase from $130,000 for 2025. Married couples where both spouses work abroad and qualify can exclude up to a combined $265,800; the contents of this comment are for educational purposes only, and are not financial or tax advice, speak with a professional)
- kevin_thibedeau 2mo agoSingapore has severe consequences for executives who violate the public trust. That makes it hard for sociopaths to rig the system for the elites.
- eru 2mo agoMaybe. Though Americans are free to vote for politicians who make similar laws, too.
- kevin_thibedeau 2mo agoThe people who make the laws are the wealthy who pay their think tanks and lobbyists to write them. Nobody gets elected without being owned by a puppet master.
- eru 2mo agoIf only! If rich people had so much influence, Romney and Bloomberg would have been presidents.
- glaslong 2mo agoStoppp, y'all really are making me want to move to Singapore with promises like that.
- eru 2mo agoIt's great, if you can deal with living in a steam sauna.
- orwin 2mo agoSingapore numbers ignore their underclass, which is significant. But you're right, if you're a westerner, Singapore's great.
- eru 2mo agoAny 'underclass' also contributes to GDP and consumes healthcare. How is any of this ignored? But yes, I agree that the US should let in more migrant workers. Good for the workers and good for the target country: cheap infrastructure is great!
- orwin 2mo agoBecause it is? Migrant workers get sent away when sick or hurt, they don't benefit from healthcare. They don't get treatment, and have to come back to their country. It's the same in the UAE, except there even if you're a westerner, if you work a manual job you will get sent to your country if you get seriously hurt (ask any sailor).
- eru 2mo ago> Migrant workers get sent away when sick or hurt, they don't benefit from healthcare. Sources?
- orwin 2mo agohttps://www.migrantdeathmap.sg/inaccessible-healthcare https://www.migrantdeathmap.sg/inaccessible-healthcare [Edit] btw I just talked to my sailor friend, I was wrong, it doesn't matter if you're a westerner or not, if you are a sailor or a docker in Singapore, you will have to pay from your own pocket for healthcare or get back home, same as UAE.
- rangestransform 2mo agoI wish the US could also use migrant labour like Singapore instead of the current system of turning a blind eye to illegal immigration out of necessity
- georgeburdell 2mo agoSingapore is the beneficiary of a neighboring impoverished itinerant workforce to supplement its own collapsing demographics with artificially cheap services. It’s hardly replicable most places.
- zer00eyz 2mo agoSo is the USA...
- georgeburdell 2mo agoNo it isn’t. Malaysians commute across the river daily and then return at night, having provided their services in exchange for compensation. Singapore gets the work without many of the associated problems with housing those people long term. As a result, there are some ridiculously niche jobs in Singapore that would not exist in another rich country, such as widespread domestic servitude and manual street sweeping
- eru 2mo agoHow is that different from people living in New Jersey and commuting to Manhattan?
- alex43578 2mo agoBecause unless you really just want to prop up only Manhattan’s statistics at the expense of NJ’s, it’s irrelevant to a discussion about US labor statistics.
- vel0city 2mo agoNew Jersey and Manhattan are both a part of the same country last I checked. Malaysia and Singapore are two different countries. Despite being right next to each other they have vastly different GDPs, standards of living, government benefits, etc.
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- logicchains 2mo agoThe US has around 4x the obesity rate of Singapore, which significantly reduces healthcare costs.
- pfdietz 2mo agoHealth outcomes in the US are affected by higher levels of obesity. If anything, the higher health spending keeps that from being worse. I expect Ozempic and the like to have a significant impact on this.
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- skinfaxi 2mo agoYour statement prompted me to look at immigration options in Singapore. It seems it is pretty reasonable to get a visa as a foreign technologist.
- eru 2mo agoYes, if you are into tech, they really want you to come. Another benefit: they tell you pretty quickly whether your application is approved or not.
- dominotw 2mo ago> Health outcomes amongst the three countries are comparable. If anything, Singapore is healthier. healthcare is not for health. Its for sickness. Going to hospital doesnt make you "healthy" . We dont have any medicines to restore health to ppl suffering for diseases majority of healthcare spend goes to. Maybe those countries dont have sickly population in the first palce like usa where a majority have metabolic diseases.
- WarmWash 2mo agoThere will never be a better healthcare because the true cost of fixing a body more often than not far exceeds the value that body produces. People run to dismiss this with "well we need a different system then", but the problem is a fundamental one on par with "eating your cake and having it too". The only way to get as close as possible to "good" healthcare is to have enough money to pay for everything out of pocket.
- thuuuomas 2mo agoRedundancy is robustness is expensive.
- malfist 2mo agoThere are already better systems of healthcare. The US one is only good if you're wealthy
- tumdum_ 2mo agoIt’s actually better to be average Western European than white and top 1-5% American: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
- eigenspace 2mo agoIt turns out that when you make a massive profit motive to sell expensive fancy interventions, health outcomes suffer. You see this to an even more extreme degree amongst the ultra rich and powerful, who are often using cutting edge, experimental treatments, and often reaping the downsides of being on that edge (though of course also the upsides).
- WarmWash 2mo agoTo be fair, the structure of that study is pretty bizarre. Why only look at 6 specific illnesses rather than something like life expectancy?
- macintux 2mo agoGrowing up, almost every woman I was related to was in education. Principal, office staff, teachers. Now, almost every woman I'm related to is in health care. I've been joking for years that eventually everyone will either be in the hospital, or working there.
- inigyou 2mo agoIf everything but healthcare is completely automated, all employed people will be employed in healthcare.