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How can I parent my kids when every child in the school is a social media addict? If heroin were commonplace and available in every kid’s pockets would parents

How can I parent my kids when every child in the school is a social media addict? If heroin were commonplace and available in every kid’s pockets would parents be to blame then too?

aucisson_masque 2mo ago
That's why phone are banned in school in France. And you can still regulate what your kid does when he's not at school.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 2mo ago
  Are you helicoptering your children 24/7 when their out of school?
  - aucisson_masque 2mo ago
    Don't need to. There is parental control and much more interesting things to do. The problem with school is that it's boring and it doesn't tire them enough.
gms 2mo ago
I know many parents who manage this fine, I don't see why you can't: 1. You control whether your child has a phone and how much they are allowed to use it (Apple provides all sorts of controls for parents). 2. Every child in the school is not an addict. This is (for lack of a better term) a boomer view of the world.
- intended 2mo ago
  Sure you can argue the nuances, however this is missing the forest for the trees. Children don’t grow up in a vacuum. They see how their peers operate, what they talk about, what they are playing with. Not being able to do that marks you as an outsider. And when the “toys” we are talking about are phones, video games, and social media, it isn’t just a question of a one off argument or rule. I have seen a 1 year old, whose parents keep him away from screens and tech, get hypnotized by swiping the screen of an Apple Watch on his aunt’s hand. SV and Tech had the most money, most people, and the ability to test and scale every idea to figure out what would enrapture adult human brains. This is not any sort of fair fight. A competition where the old approaches to family and child rearing win against the Tech that has been created.
  - gms 2mo ago
    I agree about being outsiders. Social media (if this is even a well-defined term) is just how people communicate these days. No need for hysteria and banning (I was on Slashdot in the 90s. Was that not social media?). I think it’s as ignorant to want to ban kids from social media today as it was ignorant to want to ban my generation from video games 30 years ago. The kids at the time thought the adults were clueless people who did not understand technology. Kids today correctly think the same way about adults who are hysterical about social media. Each parent can decide the time and age boundaries for their kids. But to think a 14 year old is going to accept being excluded from communication with their friends is just laughable.
    - TonyStr 2mo ago
      All popular social media platforms today (snapchat, instagram, facebook) have endless streams of unfiltered short-form media which is designed to addict. I think few people are actually criticizing online communication for kids (though there are concerns about what communities and people they may interact with). The major problem is addicting media which promotes asocial behavior and sucks away the joy and creativity of going through life.
      - gms 2mo ago
        This is a manufactured impression by people who don’t understand these systems and the reality around them. Yes I would have played video games all day as a kid but I had a functional family and friends to engage with. It’s true that if you don’t have functional parents then perhaps all bets are off. And anyway iPhones provide controls for parents to limit screen time.
    - intended 2mo ago
      A parallel between attitudes about new technologies, does not work when the parallel between the two technologies itself is broken. I too was on slashdot, back in the early days of 5 digit/6 digit IDs. I’ve since worked in trust and safety, and contributed to research on it, and have played video games enough that it’s the “sport” I prefer. The evidence and research shows that social media is entirely different than the benign games we grew up with. Zelda, Mario, Golden Eye, Ultima - are not the same as the behavioral skinner boxes that showed up with the advent of FarmVille. And thats just games - the Skinner box and addictive design philosophy has resulted in direct quotes from people at meta warning their executives that this is going to make life worse for children and teens. The comparison isn’t between panic about video games. The comparison is about panic about giving kids cigarettes and vapes.
dotancohen 2mo ago
Yes, actually. I regularly discuss with my son what he watches and views online. I also share with him what I view. I'm sure that he hides some things from me, but we have a very open channel and he most certainly know what his father approves of and does not approve of. Furthermore, I fully expect him to cross boundaries and view content that he knows I would not approve of. That's perfectly natural. But while doing so he knows very well that he is overstepping boundaries. That is a critical nuance.
- TonyStr 2mo ago
  Following this logic in context of GP's hypothetical, your son would end up taking heroin with his classmates covertly because he knows his father doesn't approve of it... The point that (I think) GP was making is that it's impossible to raise kids in a different world than their peers. If their peers all have phones, your kid gets left out if he doesn't have a phone. If society bans smart-phones for kids under 15, there's nothing to be left out of since none of them have it.
  - dotancohen 2mo ago
    In the general case of weak parents, I agree. In the specific case of covertly trying heroin, I'd say that would likely lead to a preferable outcome than the child thinking that heroin consumption is acceptable in his family.
tstrimple 2mo ago
By being an actual fucking parent and not a push over who thinks that because your kids friends are doing heroin it's fine for them to do too. I know it's difficult for you to say no to your children. But it's critical for their well-being. And no you cannot wait until the rest of society decides to criminalize the things you want criminalized before you decide to try to be a parent. The dividing line is the limits you personally set versus those society deems acceptable. I mean how fucking pathetic is this question? Do you just bow to every popular demand? Are you literally the kid who would jump off of a bridge just because your friends did it?
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Do your children have phones?
  - tstrimple 2mo ago
    Yes. But only when they started taking the bus to school and having extra-curricular activities. They had zero portable screen time until they were double digit ages. When they got their iPads, it was made extremely clear that they were not to be used to avoid social situations. It doesn't come out when people are over. It doesn't come out during dinner. It doesn't come out when we're engaged in a family activity. That of course carried over to their phones. They have zero issues with phones. They even use social media. Somehow they aren't the mindless zombies everyone else's children seem to be turning into. My daughters are in dance and show choir. My youngest plays flute, saxophone and cello. My middle daughter plays clarinet and violin and is learning on her sister's cello. She has a 4.1 gpa so far in high school and just received an award for it. She was one of seven students to receive it out of a class size of almost 600. Because of her musical accomplishments she was invited to play in the UK with other students from around the state next year. They both play tennis and volleyball and have recently taken up pottery. Both are voracious readers who keep testing my limits at Barnes & Noble. It's amazing what mature and responsible people children can turn into when that's what you expect from them instead of constantly giving into everything they want. All of those activities are voluntary at this point. We don't force them into any of those things. They know that if they didn't do any activities we would find things to keep them occupied like we did when they were younger. So they do a good job of staying busy themselves choosing the things they want to do but still have plenty of time to chat with friends and play roblox and minecraft and even scroll tiktok when they want. Neither of them have a set bedtime. But they know staying up late won't get them out of getting up in the morning so they manage that themselves as well at this point. We set expectations around them being responsible and mature and they have delivered and have many privileges as a result of it. They have definitely slipped. They are humans. They have bad days and sometimes bad weeks. And when they stop being responsible, they lose those privileges including their phones. Earlier this year my youngest lost all of her electronics for over a month because she's stubborn and still tests things. It wasn't difficult at all to remove and keep the devices from her until behavior changed. The fact that so many parents on HN find it impossible without legal enforcement on everyone is quite frankly fucking insane. But it also seems to explain things like the literacy crisis. These "parents" cannot even take phones away from their children. No way in hell they are making them read.
abc123abc123 2mo ago
Easy. In school, it is the schools responsibility. If they don't act, sue them to pieces. The schools will learn, and responsibly take care of their students. Once out of school, you are responsible. Grow a spine, and rip that smartphone out of the hands of your child, and all will be well.
zer00eyz 2mo ago
> How can I parent my kids when every child in the school is a social media addict? By parenting? My kids are hyper aware of what social media does, how it works, and how it exploits you. There were lots of conversations about this. There were lots of times that phones got taken away. There was a lot of watching minecraft videos with the kids. We already did this once before "Its 10pm do you know where your kids are" -- how about some "you have been doom scrolling for 20 minutes, do you know what your kids are doing on their device" ad's! It would go a long way in pointing out where the real responsibility lies.
Otterly99 2mo ago
I don't know, are parents to blame if their kids end up drunk?
- barbazoo 2mo ago
  Some are, and some aren't.

How can I parent my kids when every child in the school is a social media addict? If heroin were commonplace and available in every kid’s pockets would parents be to blame then too?

aucisson_masque 2mo ago

That's why phone are banned in school in France. And you can still regulate what your kid does when he's not at school.

rcMgD2BwE72F 2mo ago
Are you helicoptering your children 24/7 when their out of school?
- aucisson_masque 2mo ago
  Don't need to. There is parental control and much more interesting things to do. The problem with school is that it's boring and it doesn't tire them enough.

gms 2mo ago

I know many parents who manage this fine, I don't see why you can't: 1. You control whether your child has a phone and how much they are allowed to use it (Apple provides all sorts of controls for parents). 2. Every child in the school is not an addict. This is (for lack of a better term) a boomer view of the world.

intended 2mo ago
Sure you can argue the nuances, however this is missing the forest for the trees. Children don’t grow up in a vacuum. They see how their peers operate, what they talk about, what they are playing with. Not being able to do that marks you as an outsider. And when the “toys” we are talking about are phones, video games, and social media, it isn’t just a question of a one off argument or rule. I have seen a 1 year old, whose parents keep him away from screens and tech, get hypnotized by swiping the screen of an Apple Watch on his aunt’s hand. SV and Tech had the most money, most people, and the ability to test and scale every idea to figure out what would enrapture adult human brains. This is not any sort of fair fight. A competition where the old approaches to family and child rearing win against the Tech that has been created.
- gms 2mo ago
  I agree about being outsiders. Social media (if this is even a well-defined term) is just how people communicate these days. No need for hysteria and banning (I was on Slashdot in the 90s. Was that not social media?). I think it’s as ignorant to want to ban kids from social media today as it was ignorant to want to ban my generation from video games 30 years ago. The kids at the time thought the adults were clueless people who did not understand technology. Kids today correctly think the same way about adults who are hysterical about social media. Each parent can decide the time and age boundaries for their kids. But to think a 14 year old is going to accept being excluded from communication with their friends is just laughable.
  - TonyStr 2mo ago
    All popular social media platforms today (snapchat, instagram, facebook) have endless streams of unfiltered short-form media which is designed to addict. I think few people are actually criticizing online communication for kids (though there are concerns about what communities and people they may interact with). The major problem is addicting media which promotes asocial behavior and sucks away the joy and creativity of going through life.
    - gms 2mo ago
      This is a manufactured impression by people who don’t understand these systems and the reality around them. Yes I would have played video games all day as a kid but I had a functional family and friends to engage with. It’s true that if you don’t have functional parents then perhaps all bets are off. And anyway iPhones provide controls for parents to limit screen time.
  - intended 2mo ago
    A parallel between attitudes about new technologies, does not work when the parallel between the two technologies itself is broken. I too was on slashdot, back in the early days of 5 digit/6 digit IDs. I’ve since worked in trust and safety, and contributed to research on it, and have played video games enough that it’s the “sport” I prefer. The evidence and research shows that social media is entirely different than the benign games we grew up with. Zelda, Mario, Golden Eye, Ultima - are not the same as the behavioral skinner boxes that showed up with the advent of FarmVille. And thats just games - the Skinner box and addictive design philosophy has resulted in direct quotes from people at meta warning their executives that this is going to make life worse for children and teens. The comparison isn’t between panic about video games. The comparison is about panic about giving kids cigarettes and vapes.

dotancohen 2mo ago

Yes, actually. I regularly discuss with my son what he watches and views online. I also share with him what I view. I'm sure that he hides some things from me, but we have a very open channel and he most certainly know what his father approves of and does not approve of. Furthermore, I fully expect him to cross boundaries and view content that he knows I would not approve of. That's perfectly natural. But while doing so he knows very well that he is overstepping boundaries. That is a critical nuance.

TonyStr 2mo ago
Following this logic in context of GP's hypothetical, your son would end up taking heroin with his classmates covertly because he knows his father doesn't approve of it... The point that (I think) GP was making is that it's impossible to raise kids in a different world than their peers. If their peers all have phones, your kid gets left out if he doesn't have a phone. If society bans smart-phones for kids under 15, there's nothing to be left out of since none of them have it.
- dotancohen 2mo ago
  In the general case of weak parents, I agree. In the specific case of covertly trying heroin, I'd say that would likely lead to a preferable outcome than the child thinking that heroin consumption is acceptable in his family.

tstrimple 2mo ago

By being an actual fucking parent and not a push over who thinks that because your kids friends are doing heroin it's fine for them to do too. I know it's difficult for you to say no to your children. But it's critical for their well-being. And no you cannot wait until the rest of society decides to criminalize the things you want criminalized before you decide to try to be a parent. The dividing line is the limits you personally set versus those society deems acceptable. I mean how fucking pathetic is this question? Do you just bow to every popular demand? Are you literally the kid who would jump off of a bridge just because your friends did it?

inigyou 2mo ago
Do your children have phones?
- tstrimple 2mo ago
  Yes. But only when they started taking the bus to school and having extra-curricular activities. They had zero portable screen time until they were double digit ages. When they got their iPads, it was made extremely clear that they were not to be used to avoid social situations. It doesn't come out when people are over. It doesn't come out during dinner. It doesn't come out when we're engaged in a family activity. That of course carried over to their phones. They have zero issues with phones. They even use social media. Somehow they aren't the mindless zombies everyone else's children seem to be turning into. My daughters are in dance and show choir. My youngest plays flute, saxophone and cello. My middle daughter plays clarinet and violin and is learning on her sister's cello. She has a 4.1 gpa so far in high school and just received an award for it. She was one of seven students to receive it out of a class size of almost 600. Because of her musical accomplishments she was invited to play in the UK with other students from around the state next year. They both play tennis and volleyball and have recently taken up pottery. Both are voracious readers who keep testing my limits at Barnes & Noble. It's amazing what mature and responsible people children can turn into when that's what you expect from them instead of constantly giving into everything they want. All of those activities are voluntary at this point. We don't force them into any of those things. They know that if they didn't do any activities we would find things to keep them occupied like we did when they were younger. So they do a good job of staying busy themselves choosing the things they want to do but still have plenty of time to chat with friends and play roblox and minecraft and even scroll tiktok when they want. Neither of them have a set bedtime. But they know staying up late won't get them out of getting up in the morning so they manage that themselves as well at this point. We set expectations around them being responsible and mature and they have delivered and have many privileges as a result of it. They have definitely slipped. They are humans. They have bad days and sometimes bad weeks. And when they stop being responsible, they lose those privileges including their phones. Earlier this year my youngest lost all of her electronics for over a month because she's stubborn and still tests things. It wasn't difficult at all to remove and keep the devices from her until behavior changed. The fact that so many parents on HN find it impossible without legal enforcement on everyone is quite frankly fucking insane. But it also seems to explain things like the literacy crisis. These "parents" cannot even take phones away from their children. No way in hell they are making them read.

abc123abc123 2mo ago

Easy. In school, it is the schools responsibility. If they don't act, sue them to pieces. The schools will learn, and responsibly take care of their students. Once out of school, you are responsible. Grow a spine, and rip that smartphone out of the hands of your child, and all will be well.

zer00eyz 2mo ago

> How can I parent my kids when every child in the school is a social media addict? By parenting? My kids are hyper aware of what social media does, how it works, and how it exploits you. There were lots of conversations about this. There were lots of times that phones got taken away. There was a lot of watching minecraft videos with the kids. We already did this once before "Its 10pm do you know where your kids are" -- how about some "you have been doom scrolling for 20 minutes, do you know what your kids are doing on their device" ad's! It would go a long way in pointing out where the real responsibility lies.

Otterly99 2mo ago

I don't know, are parents to blame if their kids end up drunk?

barbazoo 2mo ago
Some are, and some aren't.