3 ms·

Okay, great, it’s called USB-D. Is this a new connector? Or do we now need to resort to labeling cables and checking the label? Do we do this for every new ver

by stouset 2mo ago

Okay, great, it’s called USB-D. Is this a new connector? Or do we now need to resort to labeling cables and checking the label? Do we do this for every new version and combination of versions for USB? USB-PD? Thunderbolt? DisplayPort?

ReactiveJelly 2mo ago
The computer / phone should auto-detect and tell you on-screen
- zx8080 2mo ago
  The hell Apple or Google cares.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - QuantumNomad_ 2mo ago
    Apple should care because customers will blame slow charging times and slow transfer speeds on the phone
    - stingraycharles 2mo ago
      I think Apple much rather tells users that this is exactly what they warned them about when they were forced to support USB-C and will advise users to only buy official cables from Apple.
      - brookst 2mo ago
        You mean USB-C, the standard that they largely led development of?
        stouset 2mo ago
        No, they mean USB-C, the port they switched all but a handful of their devices to before any other manufacturer. While GP’s take is ridiculous (if common), I do think the notion that Apple led the charge on USB-C is mostly a myth, outside of them being active participants on the USB Implementor’s Forum.
        brookst 2mo ago
        Eh, I can’t find it now so a thousand grains of salt, but I read a good article back in the day about how much Apple’s experience with in-market Lightning shaped USB-C’s physical connector and electrical handshake.
- mrheosuper 2mo ago
  They've already done that afaik, like warning about charging at slower speed.
  - Filligree 2mo ago
    Haven’t ever seen a warning like that in KDE.
  - dwedge 2mo ago
    Some chargers will re-negotiate depending how many cables are plugged into the adapter. Which is fine, but sometimes makes it tricky to know if it's the cable, the plug, or the number of cables causing a slow charge
dmos62 2mo ago
Ehem, we already do that. USB-C is an umbrella term and everyone has a homebaked organizing system to tell which USB-C cable can do what, or a homebaked testing routine where we run through 5 cables each time we need to connect something. That's what the article is about. Calling all these cables USB-C and making them look indistinguishable is a very leaky abstraction.
- brookst 2mo ago
  So there are 4 different current-carrying levels, from 2.5A to 5A EPR. There are 6 different transfer speeds, from 480mbps to 120gbps. There’s DisplayPort yes/no. There are 4 thunderbolt genrations, each with its own marker. Some of those are dependent (480mbps cables don’t have markers), so it’s not a full permutation problem. Only about 20 different combinations are valid. Is the proposal to have 20 different physical connectors? Or to prune the space down to 6 or so by requiring all cables to be very thick, or to support higher transfer speeds than make any sense for a charging cable? It’s not a leaky abstraction. It’s a physical interface standard that does not guarantee electrical properties. Same way you can plug a 6A cord and a 20A cord into the same electrical outlet.
  - josephg 2mo ago
    That can be solved the same way it was solved for SD / CFe cards. Just have a single mark which guarantees a baseline set of requirements. - "USB Speed 2" means [20gbps, thunderbolt 3, displayport, 20 watts]. - "USB Speed 3" means 100gbps, thunderbolt 4, etc. - "Power 100" means 100 watts minimum. Make a little logo for each standard - "S2" / "S3" / "P100" which can be branded onto each end of the cable. People who care can look at the logos and tell what a given cable can do.
    - ProZsolt 2mo ago
      You mean something like this, which we have since 2021: https://learn.adafruit.com/understanding-usb-type-c-cable-types-pitfalls-and-more/overview https://learn.adafruit.com/understanding-usb-type-c-cable-ty...
a2ff6eeb0 2mo ago
Yes, a new connector would be great. It could be a notch on the standard usb-c form factor, so that usb-c connectors could fit into usb-d plugs.
hulitu 2mo ago
> Do we do this for every new version and combination of versions for USB? USB-PD? Thunderbolt? DisplayPort? Yes.
- stouset 2mo ago
  I don’t think you fully comprehend the matrix of legal possibilities for a cable with USB-C connectors.
josephg 2mo ago
> Or do we now need to resort to labeling cables and checking the label? YES oh please yes! Give me labels! I'm sick of playing guessing games with my USB cables. Which one should I use for my external drive? This cable is thick! Will it work? Maybe it's only thick so it can send power? It seems impossible to tell, even if I plug it in to my computer. The files are there, I just need to somehow guess that it's a bit slower than it's supposed to go. Another cable feels expensive but its 1m. Will it work? Do I get slower data rates? I can't tell. I hate guessing. Label the cables!
- econ 2mo ago
  Color coding seems good

by stouset 2mo ago

ReactiveJelly 2mo ago

The computer / phone should auto-detect and tell you on-screen

zx8080 2mo ago
The hell Apple or Google cares.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- QuantumNomad_ 2mo ago
  Apple should care because customers will blame slow charging times and slow transfer speeds on the phone
  - stingraycharles 2mo ago
    I think Apple much rather tells users that this is exactly what they warned them about when they were forced to support USB-C and will advise users to only buy official cables from Apple.
    - brookst 2mo ago
      You mean USB-C, the standard that they largely led development of?
      - stouset 2mo ago
        No, they mean USB-C, the port they switched all but a handful of their devices to before any other manufacturer. While GP’s take is ridiculous (if common), I do think the notion that Apple led the charge on USB-C is mostly a myth, outside of them being active participants on the USB Implementor’s Forum.
        brookst 2mo ago
        Eh, I can’t find it now so a thousand grains of salt, but I read a good article back in the day about how much Apple’s experience with in-market Lightning shaped USB-C’s physical connector and electrical handshake.
mrheosuper 2mo ago
They've already done that afaik, like warning about charging at slower speed.
- Filligree 2mo ago
  Haven’t ever seen a warning like that in KDE.
- dwedge 2mo ago
  Some chargers will re-negotiate depending how many cables are plugged into the adapter. Which is fine, but sometimes makes it tricky to know if it's the cable, the plug, or the number of cables causing a slow charge

dmos62 2mo ago

Ehem, we already do that. USB-C is an umbrella term and everyone has a homebaked organizing system to tell which USB-C cable can do what, or a homebaked testing routine where we run through 5 cables each time we need to connect something. That's what the article is about. Calling all these cables USB-C and making them look indistinguishable is a very leaky abstraction.

brookst 2mo ago
So there are 4 different current-carrying levels, from 2.5A to 5A EPR. There are 6 different transfer speeds, from 480mbps to 120gbps. There’s DisplayPort yes/no. There are 4 thunderbolt genrations, each with its own marker. Some of those are dependent (480mbps cables don’t have markers), so it’s not a full permutation problem. Only about 20 different combinations are valid. Is the proposal to have 20 different physical connectors? Or to prune the space down to 6 or so by requiring all cables to be very thick, or to support higher transfer speeds than make any sense for a charging cable? It’s not a leaky abstraction. It’s a physical interface standard that does not guarantee electrical properties. Same way you can plug a 6A cord and a 20A cord into the same electrical outlet.
- josephg 2mo ago
  That can be solved the same way it was solved for SD / CFe cards. Just have a single mark which guarantees a baseline set of requirements. - "USB Speed 2" means [20gbps, thunderbolt 3, displayport, 20 watts]. - "USB Speed 3" means 100gbps, thunderbolt 4, etc. - "Power 100" means 100 watts minimum. Make a little logo for each standard - "S2" / "S3" / "P100" which can be branded onto each end of the cable. People who care can look at the logos and tell what a given cable can do.
  - ProZsolt 2mo ago
    You mean something like this, which we have since 2021: https://learn.adafruit.com/understanding-usb-type-c-cable-types-pitfalls-and-more/overview https://learn.adafruit.com/understanding-usb-type-c-cable-ty...

a2ff6eeb0 2mo ago

Yes, a new connector would be great. It could be a notch on the standard usb-c form factor, so that usb-c connectors could fit into usb-d plugs.

hulitu 2mo ago

> Do we do this for every new version and combination of versions for USB? USB-PD? Thunderbolt? DisplayPort? Yes.

stouset 2mo ago
I don’t think you fully comprehend the matrix of legal possibilities for a cable with USB-C connectors.

josephg 2mo ago

> Or do we now need to resort to labeling cables and checking the label? YES oh please yes! Give me labels! I'm sick of playing guessing games with my USB cables. Which one should I use for my external drive? This cable is thick! Will it work? Maybe it's only thick so it can send power? It seems impossible to tell, even if I plug it in to my computer. The files are there, I just need to somehow guess that it's a bit slower than it's supposed to go. Another cable feels expensive but its 1m. Will it work? Do I get slower data rates? I can't tell. I hate guessing. Label the cables!

econ 2mo ago
Color coding seems good