3 ms·

"Stand to the right on an escalator" "Put trash in a trashcan and not on the ground" That wasn't complicated. And took 30seconds. Are there a lot of rules? Of

"Stand to the right on an escalator" "Put trash in a trashcan and not on the ground" That wasn't complicated. And took 30seconds. Are there a lot of rules? Of course. Is knowing them all in advance possible? Of course not. Don't confuse that with 'complicated'. Fine people who litter. Have an ai voice chide people who stand on the wrong side of an escalator. Both simple.

wat10000 2mo ago
Do I really have to stand to the right on an escalator? I think the nearest one is a mile away, that seems really inconvenient and unnecessary, and it's going to be hard to get my work done. I'm surprised to find this sentiment on a site filled with computer programmers. The most important and difficult lesson of computer programming is that simple-sounding rules have a lot of details that we take for granted.
- zapzupnz 2mo ago
  > I think the nearest one is a mile away, that seems really inconvenient and unnecessary I think this way of thinking, being obtuse on purpose to try to win an internet argument (without a prize, no less), is the more unnecessary thing. What point does that argumentation try to prove other than that a hypothetical version of you, as opposed to most humans who live in large cities, are an inflexible idiot? Most people are not 100% unaware of the context in which they are engaging. We know to apply escalator rules when we're at an escalator. We know to put things in bins when we have things to put in bins. What we don't know, we can learn through observation, reading the atmosphere, and making at least a minimal effort not to showboat our individualism and, apparently, any obtuse refusal to engage with our context. (By the way, I don't actually think you are an inflexible idiot.)
  - wat10000 2mo ago
    That's my point. It's a lot more complicated than "stand to the right on an escalator." You have to learn through observation, read the atmosphere, and engage with context. There are some less obtuse issues with your universal pronouncement. There are escalators where it's too narrow to pass. There's no need nor expectation to stand to one side on these. The same goes for escalators that are so long that nobody's walking up them to accelerate their progress, or when nobody is around, or when it's so crowded nobody's able to pass anyway. And, at least in the places I'm familiar with, it doesn't apply in places where people aren't going to be in a big hurry. Stand right, pass left applies to subway stations but not malls. Maybe this all seems obvious. Well, go to a tourist-heavy place with escalators and observe how much of this is learned behavior that takes repeated long-term exposure to understand. Manners are really complicated. The escalator thing is a relatively simple example compared to something like, say, paying for a meal in a restaurant with a group, and it's already pretty deep when you dig into it.
    - zapzupnz 2mo ago
      > That's my point. It's a lot more complicated It's not so complicated that you assume you need to run out at this very moment to find the nearest elevator just to prove a point. That's moronic. > There are escalators where it's too narrow to pass So you see what everybody else is doing and do that. Presumably, if it's that narrow, everybody's just standing in the centre. > The same goes for escalators that are so long that nobody's walking up them to accelerate their progress The fact the staircase is so long is exactly why people would be walking up an escalator, to save the most time. > or when nobody is around Then it clearly doesn't matter. > or when it's so crowded nobody's able to pass anyway If everybody's on one side, it's not too crowded. > it doesn't apply in places where people aren't going to be in a big hurry Alright, that's fine for where you are familiar. It won't take long at all to notice that's not the case in Japan, there are enough elevators all around the place. > Manners are really complicated If you're completely unobservant yet somehow think you need to be on edge at all times, which seems contradictory, I'm sure it is. Or if you think that they're inflexible edicts without nuance. They're manners, not morals.
      - wat10000 2mo ago
        Nuance is another way of saying complex. All you’re really saying here is that our big brains are sufficiently capable to make sense of the complexity, which I mostly won’t argue with.
janalsncm 2mo ago
Fwiw escalator standing rules depend on where you are in Japan. https://myjrpass.com/ja/blog/Escalator_Rules_Japan https://myjrpass.com/ja/blog/Escalator_Rules_Japan > However, each region in Japan has a different side to stand. In Tokyo, people stand on the left side and in Osaka, people stand on the right side.

wat10000 2mo ago

Do I really have to stand to the right on an escalator? I think the nearest one is a mile away, that seems really inconvenient and unnecessary, and it's going to be hard to get my work done. I'm surprised to find this sentiment on a site filled with computer programmers. The most important and difficult lesson of computer programming is that simple-sounding rules have a lot of details that we take for granted.

zapzupnz 2mo ago
> I think the nearest one is a mile away, that seems really inconvenient and unnecessary I think this way of thinking, being obtuse on purpose to try to win an internet argument (without a prize, no less), is the more unnecessary thing. What point does that argumentation try to prove other than that a hypothetical version of you, as opposed to most humans who live in large cities, are an inflexible idiot? Most people are not 100% unaware of the context in which they are engaging. We know to apply escalator rules when we're at an escalator. We know to put things in bins when we have things to put in bins. What we don't know, we can learn through observation, reading the atmosphere, and making at least a minimal effort not to showboat our individualism and, apparently, any obtuse refusal to engage with our context. (By the way, I don't actually think you are an inflexible idiot.)
- wat10000 2mo ago
  That's my point. It's a lot more complicated than "stand to the right on an escalator." You have to learn through observation, read the atmosphere, and engage with context. There are some less obtuse issues with your universal pronouncement. There are escalators where it's too narrow to pass. There's no need nor expectation to stand to one side on these. The same goes for escalators that are so long that nobody's walking up them to accelerate their progress, or when nobody is around, or when it's so crowded nobody's able to pass anyway. And, at least in the places I'm familiar with, it doesn't apply in places where people aren't going to be in a big hurry. Stand right, pass left applies to subway stations but not malls. Maybe this all seems obvious. Well, go to a tourist-heavy place with escalators and observe how much of this is learned behavior that takes repeated long-term exposure to understand. Manners are really complicated. The escalator thing is a relatively simple example compared to something like, say, paying for a meal in a restaurant with a group, and it's already pretty deep when you dig into it.
  - zapzupnz 2mo ago
    > That's my point. It's a lot more complicated It's not so complicated that you assume you need to run out at this very moment to find the nearest elevator just to prove a point. That's moronic. > There are escalators where it's too narrow to pass So you see what everybody else is doing and do that. Presumably, if it's that narrow, everybody's just standing in the centre. > The same goes for escalators that are so long that nobody's walking up them to accelerate their progress The fact the staircase is so long is exactly why people would be walking up an escalator, to save the most time. > or when nobody is around Then it clearly doesn't matter. > or when it's so crowded nobody's able to pass anyway If everybody's on one side, it's not too crowded. > it doesn't apply in places where people aren't going to be in a big hurry Alright, that's fine for where you are familiar. It won't take long at all to notice that's not the case in Japan, there are enough elevators all around the place. > Manners are really complicated If you're completely unobservant yet somehow think you need to be on edge at all times, which seems contradictory, I'm sure it is. Or if you think that they're inflexible edicts without nuance. They're manners, not morals.
    - wat10000 2mo ago
      Nuance is another way of saying complex. All you’re really saying here is that our big brains are sufficiently capable to make sense of the complexity, which I mostly won’t argue with.

janalsncm 2mo ago

Fwiw escalator standing rules depend on where you are in Japan. https://myjrpass.com/ja/blog/Escalator_Rules_Japan https://myjrpass.com/ja/blog/Escalator_Rules_Japan > However, each region in Japan has a different side to stand. In Tokyo, people stand on the left side and in Osaka, people stand on the right side.