3 ms·

on tokyo train and subway stations specifically: maybe in the past they weren't accessible, but at least since the olympics, they've become so. i believe they'r

by mikhael 2mo ago

on tokyo train and subway stations specifically: maybe in the past they weren't accessible, but at least since the olympics, they've become so. i believe they're closing in on 100% now.

timr 2mo ago
Not even close. They're better than they used to be, and the major stations that tourists go to are mostly kinda-sorta OK, but the median station has 1 elevator if you're lucky, and probably around the same number of accessible entrances. ...and we haven't even discussed the fact that riding the train with a wheelchair typically involves reservation of a staff member on each end of the journey, to help you get on and off.
- mikhael 2mo ago
  i'd be interested learning how you've come up with that - it's disinformation. i'm speaking from extensive, direct experience.
  - timr 2mo ago
    > I'd be interested learning how you've come up with that - it's disinformation. i'm speaking from extensive, direct experience. I live here and have eyes. But tell me more about "disinformation." Tokyo metro's standard for accessibility is to have one route that is accessible from street level to the platform. That's fine, but it's a far cry from every entrance being accessible, or even just ensuring that you don't require staff support to make it through that route. Consider Takadanobaba [1] -- a major transit point that I know well. Yes, it's technically "one route", but just taking into account subway station exits (and not Seibu or JR line transfers, which are harder), it qualifies only because it has a single elevator that goes to ground. Literally every other exit is inaccessible. [1] https://www.tokyometro.jp/lang_en/station/takadanobaba/index.html https://www.tokyometro.jp/lang_en/station/takadanobaba/index...
    - mikhael 2mo ago
      i use the subway here nearly everyday - many different routes, not just touristy areas, often to small stations on the outskirts of the city, or other places i haven't been, just for fun. i don't think i've ever seen a station with only one elevator, it's always at least one platform-to-ticket-gate, and one ticket-gate-to-ground (maybe that's what you meant). the worst i've experienced has been a wheelchair-accessible stair lift or escalator (a bit dreadful, but they do work). if you want to do some random sampling, pull up a random station map and check the accessible routes. (i use a wheelchair.)
      - timr 2mo ago
        > I don't think i've ever seen a station with only one elevator, it's always at least one platform-to-ticket-gate, and one ticket-gate-to-ground (maybe that's what you meant). Well, first, I'm talking not just about the subway, but all rail lines, which is a higher bar. Setting that aside, what I meant was what you've inferred -- there's typically one elevator path that will get you out of an "accessible" station. Yes, that (usually) requires one elevator per platform to work at all, but it still leaves most exits inaccessible in the average case. I started this subthread only by saying that Tokyo is not particularly wheelchair friendly. If you use one, I don't know how you could possibly dispute this. It's a land of staircases, and I've been repeatedly foiled just trying to move heavy luggage. I grant you that in Japan they will usually bend over backwards to make something work, but I really feel for disabled folks here.
        mikhael 2mo ago
        i can't speak for all rail lines through tokyo - the ones i've taken have been fine. quick searching suggests they're probably mostly fine. the standard for me is not "is it easy?" but "is it possible?" or maybe "is it not a huge pain in the ass?" - it's always cleared that for me. signage could often be better, i'll definitely say that. tokyo more broadly: it's improving, but yeah, it's nowhere close to 100%. obviously i won't disagree with you there. and i didn't mean to come off as too harsh. but i imagined someone reading your comment and being deeply discouraged (as i might have been, many years younger) when in reality tokyo has possibly one of the best and most accessible subway systems in the world. it's not all roses, but outside of the US, most of the world is not so wheelchair-friendly (in my experience and talking to disabled folks, at least). (and don't get me started on NYC, which is just wheelchair-hostile.)
inatreecrown2 2mo ago
Nowhere close to 100%. Even on the Yamanote Line (Tokyo's central loop) you will find stations with stairs only exit A, and one elevator that goes to exit B, leaving you in a part of town where you can't get to A without using stairs outside the station.
- simukappu 2mo ago
  Greater Tokyo area resident here. Agreed, and I think exit count is the mechanism. The standard is one accessible route from street to platform, so a station with twelve exits satisfies it with one, and your Yamanote case is what that compliance looks like from the ground. On weekends with a stroller I can always get out, just often not where I needed to be, and once you are outside the gates that gap is a lot more than five minutes.

by mikhael 2mo ago

on tokyo train and subway stations specifically: maybe in the past they weren't accessible, but at least since the olympics, they've become so. i believe they're closing in on 100% now.

timr 2mo ago

Not even close. They're better than they used to be, and the major stations that tourists go to are mostly kinda-sorta OK, but the median station has 1 elevator if you're lucky, and probably around the same number of accessible entrances. ...and we haven't even discussed the fact that riding the train with a wheelchair typically involves reservation of a staff member on each end of the journey, to help you get on and off.

mikhael 2mo ago
i'd be interested learning how you've come up with that - it's disinformation. i'm speaking from extensive, direct experience.
- timr 2mo ago
  > I'd be interested learning how you've come up with that - it's disinformation. i'm speaking from extensive, direct experience. I live here and have eyes. But tell me more about "disinformation." Tokyo metro's standard for accessibility is to have one route that is accessible from street level to the platform. That's fine, but it's a far cry from every entrance being accessible, or even just ensuring that you don't require staff support to make it through that route. Consider Takadanobaba [1] -- a major transit point that I know well. Yes, it's technically "one route", but just taking into account subway station exits (and not Seibu or JR line transfers, which are harder), it qualifies only because it has a single elevator that goes to ground. Literally every other exit is inaccessible. [1] https://www.tokyometro.jp/lang_en/station/takadanobaba/index.html https://www.tokyometro.jp/lang_en/station/takadanobaba/index...
  - mikhael 2mo ago
    i use the subway here nearly everyday - many different routes, not just touristy areas, often to small stations on the outskirts of the city, or other places i haven't been, just for fun. i don't think i've ever seen a station with only one elevator, it's always at least one platform-to-ticket-gate, and one ticket-gate-to-ground (maybe that's what you meant). the worst i've experienced has been a wheelchair-accessible stair lift or escalator (a bit dreadful, but they do work). if you want to do some random sampling, pull up a random station map and check the accessible routes. (i use a wheelchair.)
    - timr 2mo ago
      > I don't think i've ever seen a station with only one elevator, it's always at least one platform-to-ticket-gate, and one ticket-gate-to-ground (maybe that's what you meant). Well, first, I'm talking not just about the subway, but all rail lines, which is a higher bar. Setting that aside, what I meant was what you've inferred -- there's typically one elevator path that will get you out of an "accessible" station. Yes, that (usually) requires one elevator per platform to work at all, but it still leaves most exits inaccessible in the average case. I started this subthread only by saying that Tokyo is not particularly wheelchair friendly. If you use one, I don't know how you could possibly dispute this. It's a land of staircases, and I've been repeatedly foiled just trying to move heavy luggage. I grant you that in Japan they will usually bend over backwards to make something work, but I really feel for disabled folks here.
      - mikhael 2mo ago
        i can't speak for all rail lines through tokyo - the ones i've taken have been fine. quick searching suggests they're probably mostly fine. the standard for me is not "is it easy?" but "is it possible?" or maybe "is it not a huge pain in the ass?" - it's always cleared that for me. signage could often be better, i'll definitely say that. tokyo more broadly: it's improving, but yeah, it's nowhere close to 100%. obviously i won't disagree with you there. and i didn't mean to come off as too harsh. but i imagined someone reading your comment and being deeply discouraged (as i might have been, many years younger) when in reality tokyo has possibly one of the best and most accessible subway systems in the world. it's not all roses, but outside of the US, most of the world is not so wheelchair-friendly (in my experience and talking to disabled folks, at least). (and don't get me started on NYC, which is just wheelchair-hostile.)

inatreecrown2 2mo ago

Nowhere close to 100%. Even on the Yamanote Line (Tokyo's central loop) you will find stations with stairs only exit A, and one elevator that goes to exit B, leaving you in a part of town where you can't get to A without using stairs outside the station.

simukappu 2mo ago
Greater Tokyo area resident here. Agreed, and I think exit count is the mechanism. The standard is one accessible route from street to platform, so a station with twelve exits satisfies it with one, and your Yamanote case is what that compliance looks like from the ground. On weekends with a stroller I can always get out, just often not where I needed to be, and once you are outside the gates that gap is a lot more than five minutes.