4 ms·

Does your LLM have hardware drivers in it? this is silly.

by tkel 2mo ago

alt227 2mo ago
Agreed, its like OSes have become so invisible people have actually forgotten what they do.
jryle70 2mo ago
But "virtual machine" is not? Maybe "Virtual OS" is more acceptable?
arandomhuman 2mo ago
This is really approaching peak AI psychosis
radlad 2mo ago
I'm obviously not saying that LLMs replace the glue between hardware and software. That would be absurd. An operating system is just the interface a user has to the programs they run on their computer. Surely you can imagine a world where you boot into a ChatGPT-like interface instead of the desktop OS you are familiar with? Different computing paradigms already exist: mobile OS sure, but also ChromeOS... heck, install Arch Linux and you're dropped into a shell by default - not a GUI. How is this so different? And it doesn't even have to replace your existing OS to be your operating system: If you purchase a cloud VM (say from AWS or DigitalOcean), you're likely running an operating system on top of another operating system already.
- alt227 2mo ago
  You seem to have a wrong definition of operating system in your head. The definition of Operating System is "The main software that manages a computer's hardware and software." An operating system is definitely not "just the interface a user has to the programs they run on their computer." > If you purchase a cloud VM... Then the operating system there is the link between the interface you are accessing and the underlying hardware on the physical server. An operating system is not just something that opens apps, it is the thing that lets you type, use a mouse, and see things on a screen. LLMs cannot do any of that, they are an app which runs on an OS.
  - radlad 2mo ago
    "The definition"? Whose? There are many definitions of "operating system" and I think it may be you who has it wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Definition_and_purpose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Definition_an... Having a kernel, drivers, or firmware does not disqualify an operating system focused on LLM-usage from being an "agent operating system." Do you agree that Android is an OS, or would you say that the OS is Linux and Android is simply a distribution? Is the operating system "Windows 11" or is it Windows NT kernel? Is UEFI an OS? ChromeOS? Language isn't always black-and-white. You seemed to miss the cloud computing point: are you running one OS, or two? Does one OS running on top of another OS with virtualized hardware count? If yes, then why do you think an agent OS is incompatible with a traditional OS? > An operating system is not just something that opens apps, it is the thing that lets you type, use a mouse, and see things on a screen. LLMs cannot do any of that, they are an app which runs on an OS. An OS is all of these things. I never once claimed that an agent operating system would have a kernel which "is" an LLM. This is an absurd interpretation.
    - alt227 2mo ago
      No, I disagree with everything you are saying here. You have a very misguided opinion of what an OS is. You linked the wikipedia page which clearly says OSes are defined by managing resources and have an always running kernel. LLMs do not meet either of these points. > You seemed to miss the cloud computing point You seem to misunderstand how VMs work. They are not OSes running on top of OSes, they are multiple OSes sharing the same hardware resources simultaneously side by side. You also seem to keep avoiding the fact you wrote: > it's the way I access my LLM. For now. Inferring that you think soon LLMs will either not need operating systems, or will become them. This is not true at all. LLMs will never boot your hardware into a prompt. The OS will do that and hand off to the LLM. This is the main reason you are getting backlash and being downvoted.
      - radlad 2mo ago
        Are we reading the same Wikipedia page? > An operating system is difficult to define,[7] but has been called "the layer of software that manages a computer's resources for its users and their applications".[8] Operating systems include the software that is always running, called a kernel—but can include other software as well.[7][9] The two other types of programs that can run on a computer are system programs—which are associated with the operating system, but may not be part of the kernel—and applications—all other software.[9] > You seem to misunderstand how VMs work. They are not OSes running on top of OSes, they are multiple OSes sharing the same hardware resources simultaneously side by side. This is not strictly true. VirtualBox, VMware Workstation, QEMU run guests on the host. Even KVM operates in tandem with the host kernel. Maybe you're referring to Xen and ESXi VMs? > Inferring that you think soon LLMs will either not need operating systems, or will become them. You removed the key point of context: > I almost do not need a traditional OS anymore. [...] it's the way I access my LLM. For now. I believe we will move to something that resembles microkernels and/or thin clients. You'll still have something here, but it'll be about as impactful as BIOS is. > This is the main reason you are getting backlash and being downvoted. FWIW, I've received a single downvote.

Does your LLM have hardware drivers in it? this is silly.

by tkel 2mo ago

Does your LLM have hardware drivers in it? this is silly.

alt227 2mo ago

Agreed, its like OSes have become so invisible people have actually forgotten what they do.

jryle70 2mo ago

But "virtual machine" is not? Maybe "Virtual OS" is more acceptable?

arandomhuman 2mo ago

This is really approaching peak AI psychosis

radlad 2mo ago

I'm obviously not saying that LLMs replace the glue between hardware and software. That would be absurd. An operating system is just the interface a user has to the programs they run on their computer. Surely you can imagine a world where you boot into a ChatGPT-like interface instead of the desktop OS you are familiar with? Different computing paradigms already exist: mobile OS sure, but also ChromeOS... heck, install Arch Linux and you're dropped into a shell by default - not a GUI. How is this so different? And it doesn't even have to replace your existing OS to be your operating system: If you purchase a cloud VM (say from AWS or DigitalOcean), you're likely running an operating system on top of another operating system already.

alt227 2mo ago
You seem to have a wrong definition of operating system in your head. The definition of Operating System is "The main software that manages a computer's hardware and software." An operating system is definitely not "just the interface a user has to the programs they run on their computer." > If you purchase a cloud VM... Then the operating system there is the link between the interface you are accessing and the underlying hardware on the physical server. An operating system is not just something that opens apps, it is the thing that lets you type, use a mouse, and see things on a screen. LLMs cannot do any of that, they are an app which runs on an OS.
- radlad 2mo ago
  "The definition"? Whose? There are many definitions of "operating system" and I think it may be you who has it wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Definition_and_purpose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Definition_an... Having a kernel, drivers, or firmware does not disqualify an operating system focused on LLM-usage from being an "agent operating system." Do you agree that Android is an OS, or would you say that the OS is Linux and Android is simply a distribution? Is the operating system "Windows 11" or is it Windows NT kernel? Is UEFI an OS? ChromeOS? Language isn't always black-and-white. You seemed to miss the cloud computing point: are you running one OS, or two? Does one OS running on top of another OS with virtualized hardware count? If yes, then why do you think an agent OS is incompatible with a traditional OS? > An operating system is not just something that opens apps, it is the thing that lets you type, use a mouse, and see things on a screen. LLMs cannot do any of that, they are an app which runs on an OS. An OS is all of these things. I never once claimed that an agent operating system would have a kernel which "is" an LLM. This is an absurd interpretation.
  - alt227 2mo ago
    No, I disagree with everything you are saying here. You have a very misguided opinion of what an OS is. You linked the wikipedia page which clearly says OSes are defined by managing resources and have an always running kernel. LLMs do not meet either of these points. > You seemed to miss the cloud computing point You seem to misunderstand how VMs work. They are not OSes running on top of OSes, they are multiple OSes sharing the same hardware resources simultaneously side by side. You also seem to keep avoiding the fact you wrote: > it's the way I access my LLM. For now. Inferring that you think soon LLMs will either not need operating systems, or will become them. This is not true at all. LLMs will never boot your hardware into a prompt. The OS will do that and hand off to the LLM. This is the main reason you are getting backlash and being downvoted.
    - radlad 2mo ago
      Are we reading the same Wikipedia page? > An operating system is difficult to define,[7] but has been called "the layer of software that manages a computer's resources for its users and their applications".[8] Operating systems include the software that is always running, called a kernel—but can include other software as well.[7][9] The two other types of programs that can run on a computer are system programs—which are associated with the operating system, but may not be part of the kernel—and applications—all other software.[9] > You seem to misunderstand how VMs work. They are not OSes running on top of OSes, they are multiple OSes sharing the same hardware resources simultaneously side by side. This is not strictly true. VirtualBox, VMware Workstation, QEMU run guests on the host. Even KVM operates in tandem with the host kernel. Maybe you're referring to Xen and ESXi VMs? > Inferring that you think soon LLMs will either not need operating systems, or will become them. You removed the key point of context: > I almost do not need a traditional OS anymore. [...] it's the way I access my LLM. For now. I believe we will move to something that resembles microkernels and/or thin clients. You'll still have something here, but it'll be about as impactful as BIOS is. > This is the main reason you are getting backlash and being downvoted. FWIW, I've received a single downvote.