4 ms·

Doesn't zwave use a different frequency, and zigbee and thread are both 2.4ghz? Perhaps that makes it a more fair comparison?

unsnap_biceps 3mo ago
some zigbee controllers even support being converted to thread via a firmware update
- tehlike 3mo ago
  smlights do that! they are great.
  - mukundzzha 3mo ago
    hey buddy! are you a coder?
SEJeff 3mo ago
Yes, zwave is in the much less congested 900mhz range. It is a fair bit more reliable as it doesn’t compete with: - WiFi - Bluetooth - microwave ovens Additionally, it’s a bit more strict with certification so you can easily use multiple vendors for zwave whereas with zigbee it’s often a terrible experience since vendors implement things differently in ways that are not as interoperable. In fact, for a device to be certified by the zwave alliance, it must pass strict conformance testing to ensure backwards compatibility and interoperability.
- petre 3mo ago
  On Europe the 860MHz band is subject to more restrictive transmission duty cycles, LBT or FHSS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-range_device#SRD860 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-range_device#SRD860 In the US you also have the FCC reshaping the 900 MHz for industrial broadband and NextNav. So there will be more competition. https://www.nemko.com/blog/fcc-reshapes-the-900-mhz-band-for-industrial-broadband-1 https://www.nemko.com/blog/fcc-reshapes-the-900-mhz-band-for... https://www.landisgyr.com/br/pt/home/knowledge/blog/Navigating-the-900-MHz-FCC-Proceeding---5-Key-Points-to-Know https://www.landisgyr.com/br/pt/home/knowledge/blog/Navigati...
- parineum 3mo ago
  All it costs is significantly more money and less options. If you limit your pool of zigbee devices to just more reputable companies, you'll end up with around the same amount of options as zwave and they'll be reliable but significantly cheaper. You also have the option to find some super cheap stuff that works just fine. That usually requires some research but not much. You can also build ESPHome devices for zigbee but that's pretty niche, to say the least. Having previously been all zwave then moved and tried to go matter but ended up with zigbee, I wish I never listened to people saying what you are. As far as I'm concerned, zwave doesn't know it's dead yet and Matter isn't going to fulfill it's promises because the corporate interests that wouldn't give you local control with zigbee aren't suddenly going to change their minds because it says matter now.
  - BHSPitMonkey 3mo ago
    But Matter _is_ locally-controlled. Matter-over-Thread is better as there's no side channels to abuse; Matter-over-Wifi also guarantees local control though the presence of Wifi means a high probability of some additional onboard software bloat the manufacturer can use to enshittify the product if you're not careful.
  - wao0uuno 3mo ago
    My entire “smart” home setup is built with Matter over Thread. It’s fully local. No internet access required. With Home Assistant onboarding can be done without a smartphone now. Devices without official certification work but probably only in Home Assistant.
    - iamacyborg 3mo ago
      My Matter over Thread stuff keeps occasionally falling over in Home Assistant and becoming unavailable, probably a router issue as I’m using a homepod mini but still endlessly frustrating.
      - wao0uuno 3mo ago
        I’m using ZBT-2 with HAOS on RPi 4 4GB. It’s rock solid in a crowded apartment complex. Devices are 90% IKEA and 10% Aqara. Definitely try that antenna and don’t connect additional border routers. Let HA own everything.
- torginus 3mo ago
  This is both good and bad, and no surprise its an American standard. Lower frequencies have higher range, which is good if you live in a house (because range), and bad if you live in an apartment (because interference and crowded channels). So it will compete with itself, and everything on the ISM band (which you have no control over).
- montjoy 2mo ago
  Also, Z-wave’s frequency is a bit better at handling things like metal electrical boxes - useful if you live in an older home. Anecdotally, I have Z-wave, Zigbee, and WiFi devices. Z-wave and WiFi are far more reliable than zigbee.
Tor3 3mo ago
Zwave frequencies, as well as regulations, vary between countries/regions. This means that equipment isn't interchangeable, something I'm currently running into - I can't get a zwave electronic door lock for Japan while I could easily have bought one in my home country. But I wouldn't be able to bring it if I wanted to. Zigbee is basically the same everywhere, however the 2.4GHz band is of course somewhat congested.

unsnap_biceps 3mo ago

some zigbee controllers even support being converted to thread via a firmware update

tehlike 3mo ago
smlights do that! they are great.
- mukundzzha 3mo ago
  hey buddy! are you a coder?

SEJeff 3mo ago

Yes, zwave is in the much less congested 900mhz range. It is a fair bit more reliable as it doesn’t compete with: - WiFi - Bluetooth - microwave ovens Additionally, it’s a bit more strict with certification so you can easily use multiple vendors for zwave whereas with zigbee it’s often a terrible experience since vendors implement things differently in ways that are not as interoperable. In fact, for a device to be certified by the zwave alliance, it must pass strict conformance testing to ensure backwards compatibility and interoperability.

petre 3mo ago
On Europe the 860MHz band is subject to more restrictive transmission duty cycles, LBT or FHSS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-range_device#SRD860 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-range_device#SRD860 In the US you also have the FCC reshaping the 900 MHz for industrial broadband and NextNav. So there will be more competition. https://www.nemko.com/blog/fcc-reshapes-the-900-mhz-band-for-industrial-broadband-1 https://www.nemko.com/blog/fcc-reshapes-the-900-mhz-band-for... https://www.landisgyr.com/br/pt/home/knowledge/blog/Navigating-the-900-MHz-FCC-Proceeding---5-Key-Points-to-Know https://www.landisgyr.com/br/pt/home/knowledge/blog/Navigati...
parineum 3mo ago
All it costs is significantly more money and less options. If you limit your pool of zigbee devices to just more reputable companies, you'll end up with around the same amount of options as zwave and they'll be reliable but significantly cheaper. You also have the option to find some super cheap stuff that works just fine. That usually requires some research but not much. You can also build ESPHome devices for zigbee but that's pretty niche, to say the least. Having previously been all zwave then moved and tried to go matter but ended up with zigbee, I wish I never listened to people saying what you are. As far as I'm concerned, zwave doesn't know it's dead yet and Matter isn't going to fulfill it's promises because the corporate interests that wouldn't give you local control with zigbee aren't suddenly going to change their minds because it says matter now.
- BHSPitMonkey 3mo ago
  But Matter _is_ locally-controlled. Matter-over-Thread is better as there's no side channels to abuse; Matter-over-Wifi also guarantees local control though the presence of Wifi means a high probability of some additional onboard software bloat the manufacturer can use to enshittify the product if you're not careful.
- wao0uuno 3mo ago
  My entire “smart” home setup is built with Matter over Thread. It’s fully local. No internet access required. With Home Assistant onboarding can be done without a smartphone now. Devices without official certification work but probably only in Home Assistant.
  - iamacyborg 3mo ago
    My Matter over Thread stuff keeps occasionally falling over in Home Assistant and becoming unavailable, probably a router issue as I’m using a homepod mini but still endlessly frustrating.
    - wao0uuno 3mo ago
      I’m using ZBT-2 with HAOS on RPi 4 4GB. It’s rock solid in a crowded apartment complex. Devices are 90% IKEA and 10% Aqara. Definitely try that antenna and don’t connect additional border routers. Let HA own everything.
torginus 3mo ago
This is both good and bad, and no surprise its an American standard. Lower frequencies have higher range, which is good if you live in a house (because range), and bad if you live in an apartment (because interference and crowded channels). So it will compete with itself, and everything on the ISM band (which you have no control over).
montjoy 2mo ago
Also, Z-wave’s frequency is a bit better at handling things like metal electrical boxes - useful if you live in an older home. Anecdotally, I have Z-wave, Zigbee, and WiFi devices. Z-wave and WiFi are far more reliable than zigbee.

Tor3 3mo ago

Zwave frequencies, as well as regulations, vary between countries/regions. This means that equipment isn't interchangeable, something I'm currently running into - I can't get a zwave electronic door lock for Japan while I could easily have bought one in my home country. But I wouldn't be able to bring it if I wanted to. Zigbee is basically the same everywhere, however the 2.4GHz band is of course somewhat congested.