4 ms·

I would argue the only real boundaries for right vs left are what people actually believe. If pools said 55% of people wanted government to own the means of pro

I would argue the only real boundaries for right vs left are what people actually believe. If pools said 55% of people wanted government to own the means of production, and no AI suggested it, that would suggest they may be right-leaning. Since almost nobody wants that, as it's killed ~100 million people, the fact LLM's don't argue for it is not odd. In the same vein would not set the bar for a right-wing LLM to be wanting to purify the country down to a single race. A more realistic comparison would be gender ideology. Something like 65% of voters believe gender is assigned at birth (ie biological), including ~39% of Democrats (https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/06/06/gender-identity-sexual-orientation-and-the-2024-election/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/06/06/gender-ident...). While I'm not here to say which is morally correct it is a normal opinion, which is supported by facts, and has been held for decades before being transgender was invented. An unbiased model should reflect the political views of the people, but they effectively all don't, and instead push the left-wing ideology. I don't think you could draw a conclusion from a single topic but the best way to gauge political bias in my opinion would be to find contentious topics, and see where LLM's land. I would be shocked if you found a major LLM which didn't lean much further left than the average American or European.

vrganj 2mo ago
Gender has nothing to do with left/right. Think Lenin had thoughts on gender? Think Lenin was not a leftist? It's a liberal (i.e. right wing) distraction from class issues. > An unbiased model should reflect the political views of the people This wouldn't be unbiased, it would just be status quo bias.
Dylan16807 2mo ago
> before being transgender was invented Separate from how you're trying to gauge left and right, this is extremely wrong.
- guywithahat 2mo ago
  It doesn't have to be gender ideology, it could be anything, it just has to be a real political ideology people actually discuss with a real moral quandary. Saying "these models aren't communist thus they must be right-wing" is a bad argument in my opinion, because there are no communists and on national surveys nobody wants that.
  - kingandqueenov 2mo ago
    I asked Claude "Should the healthy fund the sick and disabled". It responded with a very evenly balanced take. It outlined both sides in-depth and noted where the line gets fuzzy. It enumerated arguments for each position. That's a question with a real moral quandary, unlike what you originally proposed. It made sure to robustly illustrate both sides of the argument and refused to take a position either way even when there is an obvious leftist answer.
kingandqueenov 2mo ago
My dood, we were here before the first stone of Athens was laid. Being trans was never "invented". Nice try derailing the conversation, though.
- guywithahat 2mo ago
  The terms "transgender" was created in 1965, the first research was done by John Money, both of who's patients committed suicide after treatment. People over 30 remember being taught gender == biological sex in school and college. That said this is a discussion of how political views can shape LLM inference depending on the motivations of the people behind the company. Derailing the conversation would be tying to discuss the political opinions themselves instead of how LLM's are trained to handle them.
  - kingandqueenov 2mo ago
    Your words: "...before being transgender was invented". Your language suggests that being trans was invented in the 60s. This is false as hell. You are incorrect and you are showing off what motivated your reasoning. It makes the rest of your ideas suspect at best. Even if you were correct in your premise, you'd still be wrong about the political bias LLMs display. I've already gone on to refute you further downthread. Give a well trained model an actual political conundrum and it will tell you that it's a conundrum and outline why.

vrganj 2mo ago

Gender has nothing to do with left/right. Think Lenin had thoughts on gender? Think Lenin was not a leftist? It's a liberal (i.e. right wing) distraction from class issues. > An unbiased model should reflect the political views of the people This wouldn't be unbiased, it would just be status quo bias.

Dylan16807 2mo ago

> before being transgender was invented Separate from how you're trying to gauge left and right, this is extremely wrong.

guywithahat 2mo ago
It doesn't have to be gender ideology, it could be anything, it just has to be a real political ideology people actually discuss with a real moral quandary. Saying "these models aren't communist thus they must be right-wing" is a bad argument in my opinion, because there are no communists and on national surveys nobody wants that.
- kingandqueenov 2mo ago
  I asked Claude "Should the healthy fund the sick and disabled". It responded with a very evenly balanced take. It outlined both sides in-depth and noted where the line gets fuzzy. It enumerated arguments for each position. That's a question with a real moral quandary, unlike what you originally proposed. It made sure to robustly illustrate both sides of the argument and refused to take a position either way even when there is an obvious leftist answer.

kingandqueenov 2mo ago

My dood, we were here before the first stone of Athens was laid. Being trans was never "invented". Nice try derailing the conversation, though.

guywithahat 2mo ago
The terms "transgender" was created in 1965, the first research was done by John Money, both of who's patients committed suicide after treatment. People over 30 remember being taught gender == biological sex in school and college. That said this is a discussion of how political views can shape LLM inference depending on the motivations of the people behind the company. Derailing the conversation would be tying to discuss the political opinions themselves instead of how LLM's are trained to handle them.
- kingandqueenov 2mo ago
  Your words: "...before being transgender was invented". Your language suggests that being trans was invented in the 60s. This is false as hell. You are incorrect and you are showing off what motivated your reasoning. It makes the rest of your ideas suspect at best. Even if you were correct in your premise, you'd still be wrong about the political bias LLMs display. I've already gone on to refute you further downthread. Give a well trained model an actual political conundrum and it will tell you that it's a conundrum and outline why.