10 ms·

What is going on in the US is nothing short of shameful.

by ramijames 2mo ago

dayyan 2mo ago
[flagged]
- InsideOutSanta 2mo ago
  Assuming you're serious, as a European, I applaud your willingness to hurt yourself so we can have transistors and also have 40 days off each year.
  - TheOtherHobbes 2mo ago
    US inventiveness peaked in the 50s and 60s, when corporate taxes were much higher, education, housing and healthcare were far cheaper, wealth was more evenly distributed, and government investment in infrastructure and R&D was more about delivery than corporate/academic grift. Perhaps there's a reason it has declined since.
    - pudgywalsh 2mo ago
      > healthcare were far cheaper In the 60s people would often die from ailments that are now solved with routine outpatient procedures. Cars were cheaper too but it turns out all that emissions and safety equipment costs money.
    - philjohn 2mo ago
      Also post war Europe had to rebuild, the US didn't - and lots of scientists headed west.
    - vladgur 2mo ago
      100% disagree. SmartPhones, Cloud, AI. Just three things that happened in the past 20 years and were brought to the world by US companies.
      - strictnein 2mo ago
        Another example: the first commercial cell phone network was in Chicago in 1983, brought to us by AT&T and Motorola. What could be more impactful to modern existence than that?
      - wao0uuno 2mo ago
        World would be a better place without those inventions.
    - strictnein 2mo ago
      > US inventiveness peaked in the 50s and 60s How does one even measure that? And who would even try and claim that? > when corporate taxes were much higher The corporate tax rates in the 70s and 80s were just as high as they were in the 50s and 60s [0]. And the capital gains taxes were actually lower during the 50s and 60s than they were in the 70s and 80s. Why did inventiveness stop if the higher tax rates were helpful? 1952-1963 Over $25,000 52% 1975-1978 Over $50,000 48% ($50k in 1978 is ~$21k in 1952) So the tax rate was ever so slightly lower, but kicked in sooner, once you compare apples to apples. But surely Reagan did some bad things, right? The maximum tax rate on capital gains was capped at 34 percent for 1987 From April 1, 1954, through Calendar Year 1969, the maximum tax rate on capital gains was 25 percent. > government investment in infrastructure and R&D was more about delivery than corporate/academic grift Grift in the 50s and 60s was pervasive and everywhere. Eisenhower was warning about the Military Industrial Complex in 1961. [0] https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/historical-corporate-tax-rates-brackets/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/historical-corpor...
    - SubmarineClub 2mo ago
      > wealth was more evenly distributed, Maybe…of course, those were also decades where companies would comp executives with cars, apartments, vacation homes, &c. Plus other perks like expensing ‘business meetings’ at strip clubs.
- croes 2mo ago
  Countries invent nothing, people do. And I bet those who invented transistors and the internet had plenty of days off. BTW if work would be a privilege, you would have to pay to do it
- qurren 2mo ago
  The more innovative companies in the US tend to have generous vacation policies. I think what the article is really about the rest of the country. In Europe, even service industry people get 4-6 weeks off per year. In the US service industry that is unheard of.
  - encrypted_bird 2mo ago
    I work in the US service industry (retail), and until recently I didn't have sick time at all. The only reason I do now is because I'm a part of a union (very rare for retail workers) and they argued for sick time. And it's accrued sick time at that. (This is all me agreeing with you, btw.)
- isgb 2mo ago
  I guess it depends on what your personal priorities are. I’d say most Europeans prioritize their families, friends and life _away from work_ over work, but maybe you don’t. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
strictnein 2mo ago
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employee-benefits/paid-leave-sick-vacation-days-by-service-requirement.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employee-benefits/paid-leave-sick... Could be better for sure, but a graph showing the US as having 0 days of paid days off because the federal government doesn't mandate anything is misleading at best. Average US worker after 1 year of employment earns 7 sick days and 11 vacation days. And likely has some state and federal holidays off as well, and could very well qualify for state required PTO and sick time. But that doesn't get clicks and attention. More data, if one is curious: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs2.t06.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs2.t06.htm
- richwater 2mo ago
  I think an interesting point here is there is no substantial difference between allocated vacation days if you work for the government or a private employer. One would think the government would set a good example.
- Faaak 2mo ago
  I wouldn't take into account sick days, because this article doesn't also.
  - strictnein 2mo ago
    I was mentioning it because the data does and also to get ahead of people claiming that US PTO includes sick time, when it mostly doesn't.
    - rendx 2mo ago
      The point is that it is a limited amount of paid sick days, which is a completely foreign concept in most places (pun intended).
- InsideOutSanta 2mo ago
  > earns 7 sick days Including sick days makes the calculation worse, not better. Sick days typically don't exist in Europe. If you're sick, you obviously just don't go to work. What's the point of infecting the whole office? On average, workers in Europe take about 2 to 3 weeks off each year due to sickness in addition to their vacation. In fact, if you're sick during vacation, that doesn't count as vacation time, at least in some European countries.
giancarlostoro 2mo ago
I've never worked at a job that didn't offer some form of PTO, only exception is when you are doing contract work and not a full time employee, you simply take time off when the rest of the company does for no pay during those windows of time.

What is going on in the US is nothing short of shameful.

dayyan 2mo ago

[flagged]

InsideOutSanta 2mo ago
Assuming you're serious, as a European, I applaud your willingness to hurt yourself so we can have transistors and also have 40 days off each year.
- TheOtherHobbes 2mo ago
  US inventiveness peaked in the 50s and 60s, when corporate taxes were much higher, education, housing and healthcare were far cheaper, wealth was more evenly distributed, and government investment in infrastructure and R&D was more about delivery than corporate/academic grift. Perhaps there's a reason it has declined since.
  - pudgywalsh 2mo ago
    > healthcare were far cheaper In the 60s people would often die from ailments that are now solved with routine outpatient procedures. Cars were cheaper too but it turns out all that emissions and safety equipment costs money.
  - philjohn 2mo ago
    Also post war Europe had to rebuild, the US didn't - and lots of scientists headed west.
  - vladgur 2mo ago
    100% disagree. SmartPhones, Cloud, AI. Just three things that happened in the past 20 years and were brought to the world by US companies.
    - strictnein 2mo ago
      Another example: the first commercial cell phone network was in Chicago in 1983, brought to us by AT&T and Motorola. What could be more impactful to modern existence than that?
    - wao0uuno 2mo ago
      World would be a better place without those inventions.
  - strictnein 2mo ago
    > US inventiveness peaked in the 50s and 60s How does one even measure that? And who would even try and claim that? > when corporate taxes were much higher The corporate tax rates in the 70s and 80s were just as high as they were in the 50s and 60s [0]. And the capital gains taxes were actually lower during the 50s and 60s than they were in the 70s and 80s. Why did inventiveness stop if the higher tax rates were helpful? 1952-1963 Over $25,000 52% 1975-1978 Over $50,000 48% ($50k in 1978 is ~$21k in 1952) So the tax rate was ever so slightly lower, but kicked in sooner, once you compare apples to apples. But surely Reagan did some bad things, right? The maximum tax rate on capital gains was capped at 34 percent for 1987 From April 1, 1954, through Calendar Year 1969, the maximum tax rate on capital gains was 25 percent. > government investment in infrastructure and R&D was more about delivery than corporate/academic grift Grift in the 50s and 60s was pervasive and everywhere. Eisenhower was warning about the Military Industrial Complex in 1961. [0] https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/historical-corporate-tax-rates-brackets/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/historical-corpor...
  - SubmarineClub 2mo ago
    > wealth was more evenly distributed, Maybe…of course, those were also decades where companies would comp executives with cars, apartments, vacation homes, &c. Plus other perks like expensing ‘business meetings’ at strip clubs.
croes 2mo ago
Countries invent nothing, people do. And I bet those who invented transistors and the internet had plenty of days off. BTW if work would be a privilege, you would have to pay to do it
qurren 2mo ago
The more innovative companies in the US tend to have generous vacation policies. I think what the article is really about the rest of the country. In Europe, even service industry people get 4-6 weeks off per year. In the US service industry that is unheard of.
- encrypted_bird 2mo ago
  I work in the US service industry (retail), and until recently I didn't have sick time at all. The only reason I do now is because I'm a part of a union (very rare for retail workers) and they argued for sick time. And it's accrued sick time at that. (This is all me agreeing with you, btw.)
isgb 2mo ago
I guess it depends on what your personal priorities are. I’d say most Europeans prioritize their families, friends and life _away from work_ over work, but maybe you don’t. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

strictnein 2mo ago

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employee-benefits/paid-leave-sick-vacation-days-by-service-requirement.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employee-benefits/paid-leave-sick... Could be better for sure, but a graph showing the US as having 0 days of paid days off because the federal government doesn't mandate anything is misleading at best. Average US worker after 1 year of employment earns 7 sick days and 11 vacation days. And likely has some state and federal holidays off as well, and could very well qualify for state required PTO and sick time. But that doesn't get clicks and attention. More data, if one is curious: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs2.t06.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs2.t06.htm

richwater 2mo ago
I think an interesting point here is there is no substantial difference between allocated vacation days if you work for the government or a private employer. One would think the government would set a good example.
Faaak 2mo ago
I wouldn't take into account sick days, because this article doesn't also.
- strictnein 2mo ago
  I was mentioning it because the data does and also to get ahead of people claiming that US PTO includes sick time, when it mostly doesn't.
  - rendx 2mo ago
    The point is that it is a limited amount of paid sick days, which is a completely foreign concept in most places (pun intended).
InsideOutSanta 2mo ago
> earns 7 sick days Including sick days makes the calculation worse, not better. Sick days typically don't exist in Europe. If you're sick, you obviously just don't go to work. What's the point of infecting the whole office? On average, workers in Europe take about 2 to 3 weeks off each year due to sickness in addition to their vacation. In fact, if you're sick during vacation, that doesn't count as vacation time, at least in some European countries.

giancarlostoro 2mo ago

I've never worked at a job that didn't offer some form of PTO, only exception is when you are doing contract work and not a full time employee, you simply take time off when the rest of the company does for no pay during those windows of time.