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Cyberpunk 2077: > Gameplay Type: First Person Shooter Role Playing Game Summary: A long anticipated release with eight years of development time, the game’s la

by geuis 2mo ago

Cyberpunk 2077: > Gameplay Type: First Person Shooter Role Playing Game Summary: A long anticipated release with eight years of development time, the game’s launch has been plagued with bugs and poor performance as well as decidedly mixed reviews. Regardless, the title offers gamers the largest open world cyberpunk universe thus far, so despite the rather uninspired art design and a plot that brings nothing new to the genre, this game is the best available to allow players to immerse themselves in a cyberpunk setting. This is a very dated and seriously opinionated review.

teroshan 2mo ago
> this game is the best available to allow players to immerse themselves in a cyberpunk setting Depends what you mean by "immerse". If it means driving through Night City on your bike and enjoying the view, sure. If it means role-playing as a character and building it your position in the city via meaningful choices with consequences, really not.
- eterm 2mo ago
  I call this genre of game, "Illusion of choice" games, but to be fair to cyberpunk 2077 it still does it better than any other games of its type. If you think of it as a tree and each decision point branching out to millions of possibilities and outcomes then you'll be extremely disappointed, but if you think of it the other way, of a strong narrative that has a funnel of lots of different ways to reach the same outcome you'll find there is an impressive amount of ways to interact with the world. If you suspend your disbelief and never play through a second time, then you may even come away feeling like your choices had severely important consequences. That's about as good as you'll ever get from the genre. If you want full world simulation then you'll ironically end up with a boring game, because if all choices have genuine consequences, then it becomes impossible to tell a narrative, and you end up with something like rimworld or dwarf fortress. Impressive games in their own right, but are story generators not story-tellers.
  - teroshan 2mo ago
    I enjoyed the game for the reasons you mentioned. I'm even able to enjoy the completely scripted and linear railroad shooters just like I'm able to enjoy a Hollywood blockbuster when my mood calls for it. I have some issue with the initial marketing and the discussion surrounding the game though: choose your own backstory? Absolutely no impact at all, except some pre-recorded wingers in dialogues. RPG with a skill-tree? Absolutely 0 impact, you always have a way to get to a closed room, regardless of the perks you pick. And even if you pick non there is a vent open. As long as you are aware that you are getting into what is basically a linear story in an open world, instead of another CD Projekt RED game _à la_ Witcher 3 which involved side stories that are as fleshed out as other full-sized games, yes it can be enjoyable. It still one of the most amazing open-world futuristic games I have personally explored, which is a shame considering the rest of the game.
  - js8 2mo ago
    Haven't really played CP2077 so I can't tell, but I was always of the impression that CRPG works best for fantasy or apocalyptic (System Shock, Fallout) genres because the world is typically much less complicated and the information doesn't travel easily, so it doesn't have to be fully simulated (especially in terms of consequences to your actions). That I believe was always a problem for true cyberpunk games. In cyberpunk stories, information is everything. I am not sure I have seen a game that does cyberpunk really well by leaning into this complexity.
  - reactordev 2mo ago
    That is such an old school way of describing dialog trees. This isn't how it's done anymore. You're going to see more NN's making the decisions than fuzzy matching. That said, I think CDPR kicked the can when they didn't add more "lived in" scenarios in CP2077. The story was good but the world was hollow.
    - freehorse 2mo ago
      Which games currently use NN's for managing decisions-consequences in the story?
- Ekaros 2mo ago
  My biggest complaint about the story is that it basically robs you from player agency. You are the side character in story of someone else. It is fully forced on you. And not in traditional I say acceptable manner. I understand if you are playing story of set character. But with Cyberpunk it feels like you are not. You are just carrying someone else around. Side content itself is fine. I can pick to do it or not and approach it at least in some ways. With main story I only get to choose how to suffer.
  - scotty79 2mo ago
    > You are just carrying someone else around. Interesting. When I was playing I didn't care about Johnny and anything related to him. He was basically, mostly a politely treated hallucination for me.
  - schnitzelstoat 2mo ago
    Yeah, I wasn't a great fan of the story - it felt like they put a lot of emphasis on Keanu Reeves given he's a big celebrity and helped promote the game. Hopefully, the sequel (which I believe is already being worked on) won't have such a story. That said, I really liked the story in Phantom Liberty. In fact, that entire DLC was really well done.
- A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
  I agree with that, and there was another thing that really bothered me: The combination of "realistic" graphics and weaponry with "RPG-style" hit-points and combat mechanics simply doesn't work. It can't possibly work. When you empty a magnum revolver's cylinder directly into somebody's face, and they're just fine, still fighting you at 100% capacity -- there's too much dissonance between what you see and what you must expect to see. Deus Ex: Human Revolution got around this by making gunplay genuinely dangerous, especially to your enemies. (Okay, much-maligned boss fights aside...) In CP2077, the majority of enemies were just bullet-sponges, though. It was frankly terrible. And, yeah, the world was disappointingly empty and lifeless. I don't think that the aesthetics were bad -- the game hewed closely to the fairly generic 2005-2015 "cyberpunk" tumblr aesthetic, and didn't do anything too interesting or take too many chances, but it was okay for all that. The setting was just vacant and boring, though.
- Ferret7446 2mo ago
  It's basically WRPG vs JRPG. I think it's safe to say based on historical game performance/sales that most people prefer the "railroaded" story format of JRPG than WRPG role playing. For most people, video games are about relaxing/unwinding, not embarking on a creative DnD roleplay with "real" consequences. This is also why linear stories are so much more popular than "choose your own adventure" or "audience participation".
izacus 2mo ago
Calling art design uninspired and plot that brings "nothing new" has to be the dumbest take about art I've seen in a while. I wonder if they actually played the game to write such nonsense.
- A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
  Dude they literally just aped the styles that were popular on tumblr in the decade before the game was released. Here you go: > https://tacticalneuralimplant.tumblr.com/archive/2013/4 https://tacticalneuralimplant.tumblr.com/archive/2013/4 > https://cyberpunktech.tumblr.com/archive/2015/8 https://cyberpunktech.tumblr.com/archive/2015/8 Aesthetically, what the game did was literally the very definition of "nothing new" and "uninspired." It wasn't bad, but they definitely weren't pushing any new angles or visions.
  - freehorse 2mo ago
    The general cyberpunk aesthetic was indeed established, what they did was bring it in a 3d, first person perspective world. And they had to bring it to that level of detail that it would look good and realistic from different angles, closely as well as from afar etc and in a way that represented the state of the art computer graphic realism of the time. I don't think this is trivial, "nothing new" or "uninspired".
    - A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
      Deus Ex:HR did the same thing, and did it in a much more original way. That game's black-and-gold color palette was objectively unusual for the cyberpunk genre -- where the conventional color sets were either black-and-green like an old terminal (or The Matrix), or the various shades of blue/pink/green/yellow/white neon lights. This is readily apparent if you browse cyberpunk tumblr, and the generic color sets map perfectly to CP2077's aesthetic. The Deus Ex character designs, environment designs, and armor designs were also much less conventional. I think that it's fair to call CP2077 aesthetically uninspired. It copied wholesale from the conventional and well-established aesthetic of the 2005-2015 period, without even changing anything. The end result is perfectly generic and looks like "art by committee" or "the path of least resistance."
flohofwoe 2mo ago
I mean, yes the technical problems have been fixed, but it's still the same old boring story, repetitive gameplay and a very abrupt ending. And for being a cyberpunk game there's definitely too little cyberspace and 'netrunning' in the game. It's essentially a "GTA 2077" with slightly better gunplay (FWIW though, I still enjoyed the first playthrough for what the game is - e.g. a first-person-shooter with some very light RPG elements, but I couldn't endure a second playthrough, for that the different character stories and builds simply don't differ enough).
- freehorse 2mo ago
  To be fair, I think it is probably hard to implement actual netrunning without losing immersion. Netrunning is its very own world there. Not sure what are good examples of netrunning implementations in videogames. In shadowrun series it was ok, but esp in the last one it became a bit tedious.
gregoryyy 2mo ago
It had nice cinematic moments - but it felt like GTA with a Hollywood cyberpunk movie attached. Going from bunnyhopping around rooftops and killing 1000s of gangsters and cops in broad daylight with heavy weapons and ridiculous cyberware, to a fairly railroaded narrative about apparently obscure mercenary V barely surviving was some tonal whiplash.

by geuis 2mo ago

teroshan 2mo ago

> this game is the best available to allow players to immerse themselves in a cyberpunk setting Depends what you mean by "immerse". If it means driving through Night City on your bike and enjoying the view, sure. If it means role-playing as a character and building it your position in the city via meaningful choices with consequences, really not.

eterm 2mo ago
I call this genre of game, "Illusion of choice" games, but to be fair to cyberpunk 2077 it still does it better than any other games of its type. If you think of it as a tree and each decision point branching out to millions of possibilities and outcomes then you'll be extremely disappointed, but if you think of it the other way, of a strong narrative that has a funnel of lots of different ways to reach the same outcome you'll find there is an impressive amount of ways to interact with the world. If you suspend your disbelief and never play through a second time, then you may even come away feeling like your choices had severely important consequences. That's about as good as you'll ever get from the genre. If you want full world simulation then you'll ironically end up with a boring game, because if all choices have genuine consequences, then it becomes impossible to tell a narrative, and you end up with something like rimworld or dwarf fortress. Impressive games in their own right, but are story generators not story-tellers.
- teroshan 2mo ago
  I enjoyed the game for the reasons you mentioned. I'm even able to enjoy the completely scripted and linear railroad shooters just like I'm able to enjoy a Hollywood blockbuster when my mood calls for it. I have some issue with the initial marketing and the discussion surrounding the game though: choose your own backstory? Absolutely no impact at all, except some pre-recorded wingers in dialogues. RPG with a skill-tree? Absolutely 0 impact, you always have a way to get to a closed room, regardless of the perks you pick. And even if you pick non there is a vent open. As long as you are aware that you are getting into what is basically a linear story in an open world, instead of another CD Projekt RED game _à la_ Witcher 3 which involved side stories that are as fleshed out as other full-sized games, yes it can be enjoyable. It still one of the most amazing open-world futuristic games I have personally explored, which is a shame considering the rest of the game.
- js8 2mo ago
  Haven't really played CP2077 so I can't tell, but I was always of the impression that CRPG works best for fantasy or apocalyptic (System Shock, Fallout) genres because the world is typically much less complicated and the information doesn't travel easily, so it doesn't have to be fully simulated (especially in terms of consequences to your actions). That I believe was always a problem for true cyberpunk games. In cyberpunk stories, information is everything. I am not sure I have seen a game that does cyberpunk really well by leaning into this complexity.
- reactordev 2mo ago
  That is such an old school way of describing dialog trees. This isn't how it's done anymore. You're going to see more NN's making the decisions than fuzzy matching. That said, I think CDPR kicked the can when they didn't add more "lived in" scenarios in CP2077. The story was good but the world was hollow.
  - freehorse 2mo ago
    Which games currently use NN's for managing decisions-consequences in the story?
Ekaros 2mo ago
My biggest complaint about the story is that it basically robs you from player agency. You are the side character in story of someone else. It is fully forced on you. And not in traditional I say acceptable manner. I understand if you are playing story of set character. But with Cyberpunk it feels like you are not. You are just carrying someone else around. Side content itself is fine. I can pick to do it or not and approach it at least in some ways. With main story I only get to choose how to suffer.
- scotty79 2mo ago
  > You are just carrying someone else around. Interesting. When I was playing I didn't care about Johnny and anything related to him. He was basically, mostly a politely treated hallucination for me.
- schnitzelstoat 2mo ago
  Yeah, I wasn't a great fan of the story - it felt like they put a lot of emphasis on Keanu Reeves given he's a big celebrity and helped promote the game. Hopefully, the sequel (which I believe is already being worked on) won't have such a story. That said, I really liked the story in Phantom Liberty. In fact, that entire DLC was really well done.
A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
I agree with that, and there was another thing that really bothered me: The combination of "realistic" graphics and weaponry with "RPG-style" hit-points and combat mechanics simply doesn't work. It can't possibly work. When you empty a magnum revolver's cylinder directly into somebody's face, and they're just fine, still fighting you at 100% capacity -- there's too much dissonance between what you see and what you must expect to see. Deus Ex: Human Revolution got around this by making gunplay genuinely dangerous, especially to your enemies. (Okay, much-maligned boss fights aside...) In CP2077, the majority of enemies were just bullet-sponges, though. It was frankly terrible. And, yeah, the world was disappointingly empty and lifeless. I don't think that the aesthetics were bad -- the game hewed closely to the fairly generic 2005-2015 "cyberpunk" tumblr aesthetic, and didn't do anything too interesting or take too many chances, but it was okay for all that. The setting was just vacant and boring, though.
Ferret7446 2mo ago
It's basically WRPG vs JRPG. I think it's safe to say based on historical game performance/sales that most people prefer the "railroaded" story format of JRPG than WRPG role playing. For most people, video games are about relaxing/unwinding, not embarking on a creative DnD roleplay with "real" consequences. This is also why linear stories are so much more popular than "choose your own adventure" or "audience participation".

izacus 2mo ago

Calling art design uninspired and plot that brings "nothing new" has to be the dumbest take about art I've seen in a while. I wonder if they actually played the game to write such nonsense.

A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
Dude they literally just aped the styles that were popular on tumblr in the decade before the game was released. Here you go: > https://tacticalneuralimplant.tumblr.com/archive/2013/4 https://tacticalneuralimplant.tumblr.com/archive/2013/4 > https://cyberpunktech.tumblr.com/archive/2015/8 https://cyberpunktech.tumblr.com/archive/2015/8 Aesthetically, what the game did was literally the very definition of "nothing new" and "uninspired." It wasn't bad, but they definitely weren't pushing any new angles or visions.
- freehorse 2mo ago
  The general cyberpunk aesthetic was indeed established, what they did was bring it in a 3d, first person perspective world. And they had to bring it to that level of detail that it would look good and realistic from different angles, closely as well as from afar etc and in a way that represented the state of the art computer graphic realism of the time. I don't think this is trivial, "nothing new" or "uninspired".
  - A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
    Deus Ex:HR did the same thing, and did it in a much more original way. That game's black-and-gold color palette was objectively unusual for the cyberpunk genre -- where the conventional color sets were either black-and-green like an old terminal (or The Matrix), or the various shades of blue/pink/green/yellow/white neon lights. This is readily apparent if you browse cyberpunk tumblr, and the generic color sets map perfectly to CP2077's aesthetic. The Deus Ex character designs, environment designs, and armor designs were also much less conventional. I think that it's fair to call CP2077 aesthetically uninspired. It copied wholesale from the conventional and well-established aesthetic of the 2005-2015 period, without even changing anything. The end result is perfectly generic and looks like "art by committee" or "the path of least resistance."

flohofwoe 2mo ago

I mean, yes the technical problems have been fixed, but it's still the same old boring story, repetitive gameplay and a very abrupt ending. And for being a cyberpunk game there's definitely too little cyberspace and 'netrunning' in the game. It's essentially a "GTA 2077" with slightly better gunplay (FWIW though, I still enjoyed the first playthrough for what the game is - e.g. a first-person-shooter with some very light RPG elements, but I couldn't endure a second playthrough, for that the different character stories and builds simply don't differ enough).

freehorse 2mo ago
To be fair, I think it is probably hard to implement actual netrunning without losing immersion. Netrunning is its very own world there. Not sure what are good examples of netrunning implementations in videogames. In shadowrun series it was ok, but esp in the last one it became a bit tedious.

gregoryyy 2mo ago

It had nice cinematic moments - but it felt like GTA with a Hollywood cyberpunk movie attached. Going from bunnyhopping around rooftops and killing 1000s of gangsters and cops in broad daylight with heavy weapons and ridiculous cyberware, to a fairly railroaded narrative about apparently obscure mercenary V barely surviving was some tonal whiplash.