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I don’t think he was targeted but he met the reality of bureaucracy. One agency actually funded him and approved the building and allowed him to operate for 11
by rawgabbit 2mo ago
I don’t think he was targeted but he met the reality of bureaucracy. One agency actually funded him and approved the building and allowed him to operate for 11 years. Another agency said you can’t operate or sell because of the growing mold. Another agency said dump the forbidden fish sauce in the sewer. Another agency said to bury it.
- busterarm 2mo agoCanadian bureaucracy around food is at times insane (and vaguely racist). Just look up '1985 Jamaican patty wars'.
- gruez 2mo agoFrom cbc: >In 1985, the Canadian government tried to stop Jamaican bakeries and restaurants from using the term "beef patty." >At the time, Canada's Meat Inspection Act classified a beef patty as what goes in a hamburger. It could contain only meat and seasoning and it couldn't be encased in dough or a crust. Therefore, a Jamaican patty — widely known as a flaky pastry with a spiced beef filling — didn't meet the criteria. That actually vaguely seems reasonable? Especially in contexts where there's only text to go by (eg. on a menu), people might actually be confused.
- imajoredinecon 2mo agoIt’s not that it’s unreasonable to think the word “patty” is ambiguous —it’s that it’s unreasonable to spend tax dollars on saving people from that ambiguity
- SECProto 2mo ago> it’s unreasonable to spend tax dollars on saving people from that ambiguity I quite appreciate the taxpayer funded regulation of technical terms - I like being able to buy ice cream at the store and know if it's "ice cream" or "frozen dessert". Or "cream cheese" vs "cream cheese product". Or many other similar things. The Jamaican patty and fish sauce ones are problematic, but also happened 25-40 years ago.
- jstanley 2mo agoDo you have an encyclopedic knowledge of which terms are regulated and which ones aren't? Don't you think it would cause more confusion if people expecting to buy a Jamaican beef patty instead have to buy a "Jamaican beef-inside-pastry product" ?
- gruez 2mo ago>Do you have an encyclopedic knowledge of which terms are regulated and which ones aren't? Do you have an encyclopedic knowledge of which professions are regulated and which aren't? If not, should we get rid of professional licensing? >Don't you think it would cause more confusion if people expecting to buy a Jamaican beef patty instead have to buy a "Jamaican beef-inside-pastry product" ? This feels like a strawman given that they settled on "Jamaican patty", which is reasonably brief and certainly less confusing than the original term of just "beef patty".
- bob001 2mo ago> Do you have an encyclopedic knowledge of which terms are regulated and which ones aren't? The solution is to ensure all common terms people expect in a daily shopping are covered. Thus why "beef patty" was covered. Sounds like you agree with the government on this one. Not covering it would make it confusing for people who would then need to keep track of which common terms are covered and which are not. Its a bit silly at times but as you noted yourself the alternative is even worse.
- hn773746483 2mo agoIn Ontario, "Frozen Treat" and "Ice Cream", "Orange Juice" and "Orange Drink" are on shelves often right beside eachother with nearly identical packaging. I only noticed the latter when I saw one was significantly cheaper, at first thought it was pulp/no pulp.
- SECProto 2mo agoYup, exactly - which is what makes the regulated descriptors (eg "juice") so important!
- jjmarr 2mo agoHaving grown up in Toronto, unqualified "beef patty" means the Jamaican snack. It is extremely common junk food I would buy at a convenience store on my way home from school.
- dataflow 2mo agoNot being from Toronto, never in a million years would I even think of that as a visitor.
- gomoboo 2mo agoI grew up in another country where Jamaican patties were popular and ordering a 'beef patty' would never get you a burger patty unless you were in a burger joint. Same as in Toronto; asking for patty (or beef patty) will 99% of the time get you a Jamaican patty.
- gruez 2mo ago>>Not being from Toronto, never in a million years would I even think of that as a visitor. >I grew up in another country where Jamaican patties were popular [...] Have you considered the possibility that Jamaican patties aren't universally popular and the fact that the two of you came from cities with a significant Jamaican diaspora doesn't invalidate the experience of the person who probably came from a city that didn't?
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- beedeebeedee 2mo agoI’m from New Haven and if you went into a place and asked for a beef patty you would get a Jamaican beef patty, not a burger. It may not be everywhere, but pretty much every city I’ve lived in that is the case
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- anigbrowl 2mo agoAny confusion can easily be resolved by asking the person offering to sell you one what it is. I do not need terminological rules between me and fast food vendors; if I buy a 'muffin hot dog parfait' and it turns out not to be the tasty dish I was expecting, I may complain about it but I have the choice to just not go there again. I support the idea of truth in advertising laws but I think they should be limited to factual claims. Courts shouldn't entertain lawsuits over such silly things either.
- stickfigure 2mo agoI am shocked to learn there is no dog in a hot dog. Calling my lawyer...
- inigyou 2mo agoIn Germany if they applied the laws consistently it would actually be illegal to call it a hot dog if it wasn't dog. Supermarket had to rename "chilli beans" to "kidney beans in chilli sauce" because there's no bean species called a chilli bean
- ben_w 2mo agoWhen rules like this lead to complaints about "veggie burgers", part of me wants to counter that hamburgers neither contain ham nor burgers (etymology: the food is named after the German city of Hamburg, origin of city name lost to time but literal translation of original name compatible with "Castle (Burg) belonging to person called Hamma").
- 8note 2mo agoit is impossible in canada to sell swedish meatballs - cant have the onion or breadcrumbs
- SECProto 2mo ago> it is impossible in canada to sell swedish meatballs - cant have the onion or breadcrumbs I don't know if that's just an attempt at humour, but it doesn't feel like it, so I'll correct you: that's factually incorrect, you can buy them commonly. https://www.realcanadiansuperstore.ca/en/swedish-beef-meatballs/p/21724901_EA https://www.realcanadiansuperstore.ca/en/swedish-beef-meatba... https://www.compliments.ca/en/products/meatballs-swedish-680-g/ https://www.compliments.ca/en/products/meatballs-swedish-680...
- inigyou 2mo agoDid you know in Germany it's illegal to call a product "soy yoghurt" because yoghurt is a dairy product?
- EA-3167 2mo agoSpecificity and rules in German bureaucracy? A real shock, let me tell you.
- inigyou 2mo agoAs a result of this, half the stuff in a German supermarket doesn't say what it is on the packaging, just the brand name. So soy yoghurt doesn't say soy yoghurt, it says Alpro and you just have to guess or interpret the fine print to know that it's soy yoghurt. Even actual yoghurt can't say yoghurt. It has to say mild yoghurt, on some technicality.
- dmix 2mo agoSecond order effects of well intentioned regulation. As is tradition.
- inigyou 2mo agoIt clearly isn't well-intentioned, but a money grab by the meat and dairy industry.
- EA-3167 2mo agoThat sounds like industry lobbying got the better of them, we have similar fights going on here around calling things plant "milk" or "butter" and the rest. What a shame, I can't imagine it's a lot of fun having to forensically examine every item on the shelf.
- jhbadger 2mo agoWisconsin ("America's dairyland" according to the motto, although other states produce more these days) tries occasionally to introduce bills to prevent non-dairy beverages labeling themselves "milk" in the state on the grounds that it's misleading. I always wonder if they succeed, will peanut butter be next on their radar?
- snapplebobapple 2mo agoChoose one of the bureaucracies and shut it down. It doesnt even matter which one you choose, it will be a better outcome
- inigyou 2mo agoI choose the EPA.