4 ms·

There are several European countries that do this from what I understand

hvb2 2mo ago
Do what, fingerprinting or collecting DNA? Not sure what you're trying to say, if Europe does it, it's fine? The gist is that this was always done when people were arrested for criminal offences. They're now doing it for civil offences and, like with all the ICE stuff, it seems to be do first, ask questions later. So you can be a citizen but your data might end up in their systems anyway as it's submitted before they find out you are a citizen...
- spwa4 2mo ago
  A few things we can know for sure. The Dutch immigration enforcement authority, IND, has a blanket exception for to the GPDR collecting any kind of information on anybody "for the purposes of immigration enforcement". 10 years ago we found out, from a budget proposal that was in dispute, that the police had sent every mental health database in the Netherlands to Palantir. Regular health databases too, but if you're Dutch, Peter Thiel knows exactly what you told the "the law guarantees you can trust me" social worker 20 years ago. Or what you told any Dutch police officer at the border, on the street, ... Everything. That's what the Dutch state used their authority for.
  - microtonal 2mo ago
    As far as I know the IND only gives the option for a DNA test (voluntary choice), if as a refugee you want to let your family come over to prove that someone is actually your family. This is not great, but faked familial ties have been used in the past to get people into the country. Also, the DNA test is not done by the IND, but by the NFI (Dutch Forensic Institute), who destroy the material after six months. sidewndr46 had a pretty grandiose claim (I don't think there are any European countries that do a DNA test at birth and store the data) and you only come with a lot of handwaving that is not even about DNA.
    - spwa4 2mo ago
      No they just preemptively legally approved IND for to collecting ANY information on both immigrants AND citizens. The Dutch government must have done that because it comes with a really cool badge ... that's the only explanation possible here.
voidUpdate 2mo ago
Slightly biased because I'm a european, but I think a european country is more likely to be trust-able with a country-wide DNA database. Only slightly more though, I still wouldn't trust them to actually do it right
- kelnos 2mo ago
  Even if the government remains perpetually trustworthy (good luck with that), it's inevitable that the database will be hacked by a bad actor, if the information is valuable.
- lenerdenator 2mo ago
  > Slightly biased because I'm a european, but I think a european country is more likely to be trust-able with a country-wide DNA database. There were multiple governments operating pervasive surveillance states and using them to punish dissidents on the western part of European continent well within a human lifetime from today. What makes you think that won't happen again, this time in a completely iron-clad way?
  - crote 2mo ago
    > well within a human lifetime from today You can just say "at this very moment".
    - lenerdenator 2mo ago
      Well, that's true, but it's not as on-the-nose as, say, Francisco Franco did it.
  - voidUpdate 2mo ago
    > "Only slightly more though" Generally, we've seen that that was bad and I would hope that we wouldn't do it again. I did also say that I don't think it would actually work out because governments, in my original comment
ljf 2mo ago
Interested in this as I haven't heard of this from an all population point of view, do you know which European countries this is? I know many have a national DNA database but that is limited to those charged with crimes (or suspected of in some cases, in some countries these are removed later).
pjc50 2mo ago
Iceland have a _geneological_ database, which is something of a sensible precaution against consanguinity in a small gene pool that was isolated before air travel. I don't think anywhere has population-wide genetic databases and I struggle to see how it would be compatible with GDPR? (France actually ban paternity testing without a court order!)
- crote 2mo ago
  > I don't think anywhere has population-wide genetic databases and I struggle to see how it would be compatible with GDPR? Because the GDPR is only concerned with data collection not explicitly required by law. If a government passes a law to set up a genetic database, then that it totally fine with the GDPR.
microtonal 2mo ago
If you make big claims like this, please tell us what countries store DNA from birth and give sources.
xxs 2mo ago
"several" tends to be mean [5-8] or the like. Outside blood type (which is common), name at least 3 countries that DO record (and retain) DNA samples at birth.

hvb2 2mo ago

Do what, fingerprinting or collecting DNA? Not sure what you're trying to say, if Europe does it, it's fine? The gist is that this was always done when people were arrested for criminal offences. They're now doing it for civil offences and, like with all the ICE stuff, it seems to be do first, ask questions later. So you can be a citizen but your data might end up in their systems anyway as it's submitted before they find out you are a citizen...

spwa4 2mo ago
A few things we can know for sure. The Dutch immigration enforcement authority, IND, has a blanket exception for to the GPDR collecting any kind of information on anybody "for the purposes of immigration enforcement". 10 years ago we found out, from a budget proposal that was in dispute, that the police had sent every mental health database in the Netherlands to Palantir. Regular health databases too, but if you're Dutch, Peter Thiel knows exactly what you told the "the law guarantees you can trust me" social worker 20 years ago. Or what you told any Dutch police officer at the border, on the street, ... Everything. That's what the Dutch state used their authority for.
- microtonal 2mo ago
  As far as I know the IND only gives the option for a DNA test (voluntary choice), if as a refugee you want to let your family come over to prove that someone is actually your family. This is not great, but faked familial ties have been used in the past to get people into the country. Also, the DNA test is not done by the IND, but by the NFI (Dutch Forensic Institute), who destroy the material after six months. sidewndr46 had a pretty grandiose claim (I don't think there are any European countries that do a DNA test at birth and store the data) and you only come with a lot of handwaving that is not even about DNA.
  - spwa4 2mo ago
    No they just preemptively legally approved IND for to collecting ANY information on both immigrants AND citizens. The Dutch government must have done that because it comes with a really cool badge ... that's the only explanation possible here.

voidUpdate 2mo ago

Slightly biased because I'm a european, but I think a european country is more likely to be trust-able with a country-wide DNA database. Only slightly more though, I still wouldn't trust them to actually do it right

kelnos 2mo ago
Even if the government remains perpetually trustworthy (good luck with that), it's inevitable that the database will be hacked by a bad actor, if the information is valuable.
lenerdenator 2mo ago
> Slightly biased because I'm a european, but I think a european country is more likely to be trust-able with a country-wide DNA database. There were multiple governments operating pervasive surveillance states and using them to punish dissidents on the western part of European continent well within a human lifetime from today. What makes you think that won't happen again, this time in a completely iron-clad way?
- crote 2mo ago
  > well within a human lifetime from today You can just say "at this very moment".
  - lenerdenator 2mo ago
    Well, that's true, but it's not as on-the-nose as, say, Francisco Franco did it.
- voidUpdate 2mo ago
  > "Only slightly more though" Generally, we've seen that that was bad and I would hope that we wouldn't do it again. I did also say that I don't think it would actually work out because governments, in my original comment

ljf 2mo ago

Interested in this as I haven't heard of this from an all population point of view, do you know which European countries this is? I know many have a national DNA database but that is limited to those charged with crimes (or suspected of in some cases, in some countries these are removed later).

pjc50 2mo ago

Iceland have a _geneological_ database, which is something of a sensible precaution against consanguinity in a small gene pool that was isolated before air travel. I don't think anywhere has population-wide genetic databases and I struggle to see how it would be compatible with GDPR? (France actually ban paternity testing without a court order!)

crote 2mo ago
> I don't think anywhere has population-wide genetic databases and I struggle to see how it would be compatible with GDPR? Because the GDPR is only concerned with data collection not explicitly required by law. If a government passes a law to set up a genetic database, then that it totally fine with the GDPR.

microtonal 2mo ago

If you make big claims like this, please tell us what countries store DNA from birth and give sources.

xxs 2mo ago

"several" tends to be mean [5-8] or the like. Outside blood type (which is common), name at least 3 countries that DO record (and retain) DNA samples at birth.