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Less Coffee, Better Sleep
- majorbugger 2mo agoFor many people this might make a massive difference. But people are not equally sensitive to caffeine.
- voxgen 2mo agoFully agree. I can drink coffee until 6pm and soft drinks until 9pm without impact to my sleep. There's little point in me moderating my caffeine intake. Light, sleep time regularity, and exercise make a much more noticeable difference. That's where I should spend effort if I want to improve my sleep.
- anonzzzies 2mo agoI get sleepy after drinking coffee. and also energy drinks.
- david-gpu 2mo agoAnecdotally, I have heard people with ADHD reporting that caffeine calms them down. Maybe worth a shot? https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-venn-diagram-life/202603/can-caffeine-calm-your-adhd-brain https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-venn-diagram-lif...
- EbNar 2mo agoRight now we have 30 ºC at nighttime + 80% relative humidity (and no, no AC). I can assure you that coffee is the last of my problems.
- ccppurcell 2mo agoAlso high pollen count. I am much more sensitive to heat than my partner but she has allergies. We sort of alternate. Sleeping with AC all night has its own issues.
- ShinyLeftPad 2mo ago> Sleeping with AC all night has its own issues. What are the issues sleeping with AC all night?
- mittermayr 2mo agoDried up air (I love A/C regardless).
- nomorewords 2mo agoDoes it dry up that much? I have an ikea smart thermometer that's in the flow of the AC and I haven't seen humidity drop below 40% even in summer
- ShinyLeftPad 2mo agoTo some people below 60% is too dry
- mattrighetti 2mo agoInteresting coincidence - I’ve been drinking only one cup of coffee in the morning for the past month or so. Used to drink one in the morning and one immediately after lunch. Couldn’t really tell the difference in sleep quality and to be fair I’m waking up more frequently in the past 2 weeks, but I guess that has to do more with heat than anything else. Listened to many podcasts trying to learn more about this and they all seem to argue that it’s actually more important when you drink coffee. If you get your last coffee right after lunch your body will have almost no caffeine circulating in the system by the end of the day and that will make you sleep better.
- shoobiedoo 2mo agoWell I think the key point is that caffeine has a half life of 6 or 7 hours in adults. So 4 coffees before 10am is worse than one coffee at 2pm. That's how I look at it anyway. Regardless, I limit myself to 2 cups before 8am. Now I notice even a late afternoon green tea wrecking my sleep. Can't believe I spent all those years drinking 5 cups well into the afternoon...
- maccard 2mo ago> I spent all those years<…> Sleep changes as we age, so it’s possible that you were “fine” before.
- mattrighetti 2mo agoYeah, 5 years ago I was drinking coffee at 10PM and I was sleeping without an issue. I’m pretty sure that would be a very big problem right now
- muyuu 2mo agoSleep is considerably more fragile with age, regardless of what you do.
- triilman 2mo agoThis is what I do when get heavy sleepy. 30min or 1 hour sleeping time is enough to stay conscious for next hours.
- intrasight 2mo agoI was having 3-4 per day. Wasn't feeling so great. Decided for quality over quantity. Had just one cappuccino a week Sunday morning. Did that for several years. But then started a relationship with a coffee lover. Now have 2 in the morning which is as much caffeine as my prev 4. Yet I've had no ill effects.
- nchmy 2mo agoYes, I'm of the opinion that we ought to treat coffee like we do alcohol - once in a while, as a treat. No sane person would say that regular alcohol is a positive thing, even if they do it themselves. It's strange that coffee is treated differently. Your Sunday morning ritual sounds very nice, especially if it's before or after sowmthing like a hike, bike ride etc. Ps please dont come with studies about x glasses of wine a day. It's unequivocally a poison and shouldn't be consumed as a routine. (I had a small glass of wine last night for the first time in weeks)
- keyle 2mo agoOver my dead body. I love coffee. I always have. It has anti oxidant properties. Don't drink the crap coffee. Most Americans have no idea what good coffee is. They're as educated with coffee as they are with nutrition. Just drink less of it if you must but enjoy it. Get good coffee. Avoid it after 3 PM if you want good sleep. I found a late night cup after a dinner with friends typically sets me right for the drive home and does not damage sleep. But between 3 and 9 PM it's not great for sleep. Finally it's important to understand that caffeine does not give you energy. It only hides fatigue. If you have trouble sleeping then avoid caffeine. You can get good decaf options today. But they still contain approx a fifth of a regular cup's caffeine.
- kzrdude 2mo agoPeople just have different tolerance. Coffee strictly before noon works well for me.
- foft 2mo agoCutting coffee to just the morning definitely helped me. My problem now is that if I think of anything vaguely interesting in the evening then my brain refuses to stop thinking about it. That and restless legs. Evening if my main time for hobby projects so having them lead to disrupted sleep is really annoying. Any tips?
- mightyham 2mo agoWake up early and work on hobby projects in the morning. That's what I personally do sometimes.
- pilooch 2mo agoDaily sports is the way, purges the body, rests the mind.
- speedgoose 2mo agoBut not too late, otherwise you don’t sleep well.
- chedabob 2mo agoI always aim to stop doing anything with high cognitive load at least half an hour before getting ready for bed. Not necessarily no screen time, but coding stops, and the remaining time is spent gaming or watching TV, or I go to bed early and read.
- Mwntalhwalth 2mo agoRecently cut out cannabis, cbd, coffee and all alcohol and its shocking how different your sleep becomes. There needs to be more research done on stimulant free brains and my theory of how better our brains are at "taking the trash out" at night when not pumped full of quick/easy dopamine.
- swed420 2mo ago> Recently cut out cannabis I've found if I cease cannabis use by 5pm each day that it doesn't impact my sleep (or ability to dream and remember them). I also need to be done exercising (strength or cardio) by late morning to not have an impact on sleep. Finally, supplementing magnesium with dinner has probably made the biggest impact on increasing restful sleep, in agreement with this recent discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48919363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48919363
- maccard 2mo agoI’ve always struggled with sleep. A few things that helped me (in order of importance) - go to bed and get up at the same time every day. Getting up is more important than going to bed. - no phone in bed, and limit stimulating activities (intense video games, programming, planning the vacation etc) to 90 minutes before bed. I read during that time but TV, cleaning, music, whatever works. - a bad nights sleep will happen, often a few nights in a row. Be ok with that (easier said than done, I did CBT for this). Instead of lying in bed restless get up and watch TV, or read. - leave the house for 30 minutes every day. - journal as often as possible. Ideally daily, but a few times a eeek. Don’t ever read it back but just write down your feelings and the things on your mind. Do good and bad. - exercise every other day. - no coffee after lunch, and never more than 3 in a morning. It’s a marathon, not a sprint and overall I have way less bad nights than I did before, and I don’t beat myself up as much for the bad nights.
- tigerlily 2mo agoHuh, this'll probably do more than just improve sleep.
- maccard 2mo agoI won’t claim to have any qualifications but generally the more I look after myself the better I sleep. The better I sleep the more I can look after myself.
- toasty228 2mo agoA 30-60min walk around the block before bed does wonders too
- esseph 2mo agoVery much depends on the person. If I went for an hour walk late at night I'm going to be up for hours and hours and hours.
- swat535 2mo agoFor me it's the opposite, if I do any kind of exercise before sleeping, whether it's lifting weights, doing cardio or slow walks, I'll be awake for hours due to energy. My muscles will ache but my mind remains sharp and energetic. I reserve an hour of "downturn" before bed, which includes a checks list: * Slow activities like reading a paper book,or watching a movie * Turning off electronics / putting them on DND * Dimming the lights * Shutting the blinds * This hour can also be reserved for prayers (if you are religious) or meditation / reflections, etc. These help getting out lingering thoughts out of your head I also have Flux / Night Shift installed on all my devices which forces me to take a break from the screens.
- HelloUsername 2mo agoPrevious discussion in 2024: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41140565 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41140565
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- frobisher 2mo ago[flagged]
- CapsAdmin 2mo agoWhenever I stop drinking coffee for a few days or even months, I find that it becomes harder to wake up. I seem to sleep a lot heavier, but in the morning it's difficult to open my eyes as they feel heavy. It doesn't matter if I have 1 cup in the morning or drink coffee all day. As long as I have it in my system from the previous day, it's very easy to wake up the next day.
- ShinyLeftPad 2mo agoCould be catching up on long term sleep deficiency
- nchmy 2mo agoAgreed. This sounds like someone whose system is very out of balance and would benefit from a coffee detox (and significantly more sleep) of at least 2 months.
- Schiendelman 2mo agoDo you track exactly how much sleep you actually get? Like with a device, not with a journal. That sounds like you may be aren't getting enough sleep, consistently.
- CapsAdmin 2mo agoI've tracked it for a few years with whatever the latest samsung watch is, and it usually says it's good to excellent. My total sleep time is about 6 hours. deep sleep is about 1 hour and 30 min. rem sleep is about 1 hour and 20 min. I usually go to bed around 11pm and wake up at 6 am (give or take, I'm married) It does however warn me about bad sleep if I've been drinking, have a fever, traveling across timezones, or staying up very late for some reason. One of these things may happen every 2 months or so. I feel mentally good, I'm in shape and in general good health according to yearly checkups. I've been drinking coffee for about 18 years now.
- Schiendelman 2mo ago
- kitbrennan 2mo agoOne of the unexpected impacts I experienced when going to zero cups per-day was that I suddenly started dreaming more often and more vividly. It was like how I remember sleep as a child, with nights full of weird and wonderful dreams, rather than only remembering one or two dreams a week as an adult. I only had this effect when going completely zero caffeine, not when I cut down to one cup a day. Unfortunately coffee is a vicious cycle, where I end up picking the habit back up on work trips. Before I know it I'm drinking a cup of coffee while writing a reply on HN about how great it was when I gave it up.
- baal80spam 2mo agoOh, interesting, and I can relate! Incidentally, after being a heavy coffee drinker (5-10 cups per day for many years), I cut my coffee intake to zero. This happened around 3 years ago. At the same time, I started using earplugs every night. Pretty much since I started doing that, I dream several times a week. Previously I had dreams maybe once per month. I suspected that this dreaming was the effect of using earplugs, but now I wonder if it might be the caused by me not drinking coffee (for the curious, I replaced coffee with green tea).
- mostlyk 2mo agoI want to get better sleep but can not maintain a proper schedule due to university, 2 days a week it's waking up at 8 AM and otherwise 10 AM/11 AM. I usually have coffee at Morning and a light coffee at 5 PM, it generally helps to do more work because I feel like I want to sit and work. Otherwise I'd dopamine max or play a sport. Any tips on improving sleep? (It's simply not possible to follow a strict schedule due to multiple deadlines of so many things)
- steve1977 2mo agoWhy does it have to be 10 AM otherwise? (i.e. why can't it be 8 AM every day?) I also get up at 6 AM every day because I have to on some days.
- mostlyk 2mo agoBecause I am usually sleeping at 3-5 AM and waking at 8 just becomes really tiring on those days and it is extremely hard to push through...
- nchmy 2mo agoIs there actually a good reason to be sleeping at 3-5am? You'll probably notice significant improvement in all areas of your life if you sleep at something like 10pm EVERY day and wake up at 7am. And get rid of coffee, and exercise regularly.
- satvikpendem 2mo agoWake up at the same time every day.
- Schiendelman 2mo agoAs the others have commented, wake up at the same time every day. It's really important. It will help. It will take weeks or months to help, don't decide it's not working after a few days.
- satvikpendem 2mo agoI started drinking decaf black instead of coffee for the past several years now, that seems to help the psychological ritual of drinking coffee in the morning to wake you up but not actually have (or have very small amounts of) caffeine.
- nchmy 2mo agoI'm sure it's different for everyone, but I can only tolerate a tiny amount of coffee now. Like brewing 6-10 grams of beans, once per morning. But even then, after a month or so, it definitely results in generally low energy, worse sleep etc... And I really don't like how it's the first thing that I MUST do when I wake up. I ultimately have to detox, which I find takes few weeks. And then I'll feel great for a few months "sober". But I really do love cofeee - I even roast it myself in small batches. So, I inevitably end up drinking it again and the cycle continues. Life is definitely better without it.
- safety1st 2mo agoEveryone's tolerance and ideal routine is different. For me, it's: - One cup of coffee in the morning, optional tea while it's still light out - Sunlight exposure within a half hour of waking - 10-15 minutes reading some fiction - 10 minutes of meditation Virtually guaranteed to yield a productive day with a good sleep at the end. In the evening, both phone and overhead lights get turned off as much as two hours before bed. Reading lamps/spot lighting only. Any screens are dimmed.
- beloch 2mo ago"For the experiment, I started by taking a day completely off coffee." ----------- This is an anecdote, not an experiment. What's anecdotal evidence worth? Yes, caffeine consumption should be appropriate and appropriately timed. Most people are well aware that you should not chug a litre of coffee before going to bed. If I were patient enough to read more of this blog I wouldn't be surprised if there's a story about the author's rediscovery of fire and the wheel. I appreciate that everyone is having good conversations about their sleep and coffee intake, but this is a really low quality blog post to start them with. I guess we love talking about coffee and sleep just that much. Maybe we should just post a link to the wiki on caffeine periodically instead? Here you go! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine
- andhuman 2mo agoWhat surprised me is that caffeine gets converted to other compounds that _also_ binds to the same receptors thus causing you to feel less tired. And that compound has its own half life. Now I’m just guessing, but it could be that one is more affected by one of the byproducts so to speak than the caffeine itself.
- dan0de 2mo agoFor me, load up on caffeine early is as efficient and doesn’t affect my sleep negatively. My routine consist of a cup of green tea at 8 am, cup of coffee at 9 am and a last cup of coffee at midday.
- pmdr 2mo agoSince quitting caffeine 10 months ago I've found it difficult to fall asleep as I seem to have a lot more energy in the evenings. Also, decaf is probably impossible to get in a Swedish workplace, people give you a concerned stare whenever you ask for it.
- metalman 2mo agobetter coffee, better everything. but definitly and with ferocious certainty, not more coffee. more coffee is held in reserve for a power run, backed by protien loading, extra hydration and whatever else can help cushion the load, and is followed by some lazy down time to recover, hopefully squinting bleary eyed at a cheque and new number in my bank account and the sleep of the rightiously tired.
- fallinghawks 2mo agoI've had exactly the same coffee drinking habit for decades: about 22-23 oz first thing before breakfast and that's it. Once in a very rare while (on the scale of a few times a year) I'll have a masala chai or matcha in the evening. My sleep pattern has changed despite this consistency and I believe it's more due to age rather than coffee consumption.
- scoofy 2mo ago>Normally I’d drink 4, sometimes 5 large cups of coffee throughout the day (I say cups but it’s literal tea mugs), and it wasn’t until the third I really could get going. Didn’t feel jittery or anything like that, mostly different shades of tired. This behavioral pattern describes a nontrivial caffeine dependence, not the effects of standard daily coffee consumption. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine_dependence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine_dependence
- forgotTheLast 2mo agoI started tracking my sleep quality (measured by a smart watch) and caffeine consumption a few months ago. Turns out caffeine didn't make much of a difference for me. Other things that correlated much better with good sleep were avoiding alcohol, exercising and cold showers and reading before going to bed. As the saying goes, measure first, optimize later.