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The core stuff is under heavy lock and key. I’m not sure China can hire people that know the whole process, let alone the bits and pieces they can’t easily figu

The core stuff is under heavy lock and key. I’m not sure China can hire people that know the whole process, let alone the bits and pieces they can’t easily figure out on their own. The tech seems to have been locked down by a few western countries, and it’s hard to find any holes in their secrecy.

LIMEVINCE 3mo ago
I'm not sure how true this is but I've read in other threads that ASML employs many Chinese engineers, and also read other news that the Chinese state is paying engineers working abroad at companies like ASML alluring salaries to get them to work back home.
- seanmcdirmid 3mo ago
  You can employ as many engineers as you want but if you compartilize them enough and separate key processes to a very small group of people (Dutch citizens or whatever, maybe military), you can actually protect the process as a whole. It’s not like a nuclear bomb that even high school students can even figure out how to make without much help.
  - don_esteban 3mo ago
    The thing is that an expert in the area does not need the detailed how-to guide/complete description of the process. Few hints here and there can help to get over the key hurdles, with most other steps either a general knowledge for the experts, or analogues can be independently developed without too much trouble. Yes, the result is not the same, but actually developing indigenous expertise is the key required component anyway,
    - seanmcdirmid 3mo ago
      China has a lot of bits and pieces of process but they are spending time to figure out how to put them together along with a few key locked up secrets that you just can’t get with smarts alone. They will definitely get there, but don’t be surprised if they come up with a very different solution because being derivative just wasn’t an option
the_sleaze_ 3mo ago
Espionage
- jona-f 3mo ago
  Nah, you watch too many movies, they openly hired former asml employees.
  - the_sleaze_ 3mo ago
    It's only a google away friend. > https://dominotheory.com/taiwan-issues-first-national-security-indictment-for-tsmc-leak-to-china/ https://dominotheory.com/taiwan-issues-first-national-securi...

LIMEVINCE 3mo ago

I'm not sure how true this is but I've read in other threads that ASML employs many Chinese engineers, and also read other news that the Chinese state is paying engineers working abroad at companies like ASML alluring salaries to get them to work back home.

seanmcdirmid 3mo ago
You can employ as many engineers as you want but if you compartilize them enough and separate key processes to a very small group of people (Dutch citizens or whatever, maybe military), you can actually protect the process as a whole. It’s not like a nuclear bomb that even high school students can even figure out how to make without much help.
- don_esteban 3mo ago
  The thing is that an expert in the area does not need the detailed how-to guide/complete description of the process. Few hints here and there can help to get over the key hurdles, with most other steps either a general knowledge for the experts, or analogues can be independently developed without too much trouble. Yes, the result is not the same, but actually developing indigenous expertise is the key required component anyway,
  - seanmcdirmid 3mo ago
    China has a lot of bits and pieces of process but they are spending time to figure out how to put them together along with a few key locked up secrets that you just can’t get with smarts alone. They will definitely get there, but don’t be surprised if they come up with a very different solution because being derivative just wasn’t an option

the_sleaze_ 3mo ago

Espionage

jona-f 3mo ago
Nah, you watch too many movies, they openly hired former asml employees.
- the_sleaze_ 3mo ago
  It's only a google away friend. > https://dominotheory.com/taiwan-issues-first-national-security-indictment-for-tsmc-leak-to-china/ https://dominotheory.com/taiwan-issues-first-national-securi...