3 ms·

This is case where you need to make sure your test data reflects real-world usage or you end up optimizing for the wrong thing. Ideally a new elevator installa

This is case where you need to make sure your test data reflects real-world usage or you end up optimizing for the wrong thing. Ideally a new elevator installation would have a trial period where they record usage and then run it through a simulator like this to determine the optimal strategy for that particular building. And you'd want to re-run it every once in a while as the building tenants/usage changes. I wonder if this actually happens, though.

shepherdjerred 2mo ago
I wonder if we'll see LLM elevator scheduling
- fragmede 2mo ago
  IBM's Watson has been used for elevator scheduling.
- noisy_boy 2mo ago
  I apologize for bringing you to the 29th floor instead of the 3rd floor as you requested. That's on me. I will do better next time.
  - brookst 2mo ago
    I want to own something here: this is the fourth time in a row I’ve brought you to the 29th floor when you asked for the third. I am creating a memory to always go to the 3rd floor instead of the 29th, which should prevent this from happening again.
    - breakingcups 2mo ago
      Small wrinkle: the existing documentation indicates that the 29th floor is in fact the 3rd floor.
  - ufmace 2mo ago
    Sorry, I forgot that this building only has 18 floors, it's on me that your elevator is now airborne.
    - ArekDymalski 2mo ago
      Would you like to learn more? If you meant an aircraft elevator or a building elevator malfunction, tell me more so I can give you the right facts.
- Terr_ 2mo ago
  Then it'll be time to make an entirely new software accreditation system, simply so that anyone building such a thing can be disbarred/excommunicated.
- swiftcoder 2mo ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuFcIRlwdc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuFcIRlwdc
- Ekaros 2mo ago
  Most likely not. I think all the big players have been using more traditional ML approaches for years. Then again someone new might go there and fail miserably.
  - swiftcoder 2mo ago
    This is an industry that evolves extremely slowly. A decade back one of the big players in this space was still using a software emulation of their original hardware relay logic, because it was cheaper than retraining all the technicians...
    - Ekaros 2mo ago
      It is just the reality that LLMs are not superior for this purpose. They are most likely very much inferior. There is no need to use language models for something that involve no language. I feel weirded each time LLMs are suggested for anything as some sort of holy solution for every single problem. Robot surgery let LLM control it. Robots cooking LLMs. Nuclear power plants and oil refineries LLMs... Industry has find a sledge hammer and now everything is a nail...
- omoikane 2mo ago
  It sounds like you are looking for Happy Vertical People Transporters with Genuine People Personalities.
  - fuzzfactor 2mo ago
    No thanks, I'll take the alleviator :)
  - bkleinwort 2mo ago
    As long as they're not afraid of the future!
_kb 2mo ago
The data is already there. This also gets more interesting when you expand the scope from just elevators to general building occupancy and movement. In the simplest sense, I've seen this tied into security gates so as people badge on when entering the building there's already suitable elevator movement to meet demand by time the foot traffic reaches the lift lobby. That can then also feed into destination dispatch if you move from just people counts to identity (and known/most likely work floor). From there you can move into wifi trilateration and have a live and quite accurate view of both how and who interacts with a physical space. This can feed into HVAC load shedding, JIT bookings for meeting rooms or workspaces, and a lot of very good things from a sustainability and general optimisation perspective. The flip side is it also has the potential to be an absolute dystopian privacy nightmare.
- TeMPOraL 2mo ago
  > (...) and a lot of very good things from a sustainability and general optimisation perspective. The flip side is it also has the potential to be an absolute dystopian privacy nightmare. Privacy is an illusion for most people, and in office spaces, it's also a red herring. Wifi trilateration doesn't make things worse when you have a CCTV camera on every corner, badge reader at every other door, and presence sensing in conference rooms. Dystopia does not materialize without a severe regime shift. Nah, my main worry is precisely sustainability and optimization, i.e. cost-cutting, because the more tools you give a business to optimize, and the more bullshit excuses ("sustainability! saving the planet!") you give a business, the worse the outcome is for users (here: employees). And a lot of that is doubly annoying, because it's counter-productive. So what you have smart sensors in every room, and combine it with badge readers and wifi trilat and what not, and have smart auto-routing/rebooking algorithm: half the week, all conference rooms are always booked full, and yet somehow when you physically go and check, a good half sits empty, and it's apparently an impossible problem to solve. So what the bathroom wall says, "with water-saving fixtures, we're using much less water in this building", and "we're now saving 2L water per flush". It's all bullshit, because those eco inventions mean I need to flush 3 times instead of once, and it means that I spend a minute washing my hands instead of 10 seconds - especially because both the soap and the dispenser are also optimized, so it takes 20 seconds to get enough soap on your hands, and then extra 20 seconds to get it off afterwards, because unlike normal people soap, it leaves your hands slippery for some reason. And then they say "scientists said you can dry your hands with just 2 paper towels". At that point I'm getting red, because yes, I saw that TED talk 15 years ago too, and yes, it's total bullshit. Maybe it was true then, but the industry and the beancounters have value-optimized paper towels 15 times since that. The generalization and summary of this rant is: slack is good. Happiness lives in slack. There is such thing as optimizing too much. Also the small, isolated systems under optimization, are in reality neither small nor isolated.
TeMPOraL 2mo ago
> Ideally a new elevator installation would have a trial period where they record usage There's a tricky problem here: as a user, the first thing you do upon discovering a new elevator, especially if you expect to be using it regularly, is to observe how it behaves and adjust your own expectations/behavior to it.
- gpvos 2mo ago
  I think you belong to a small percentage of the population doing that. Most people don't bother with such detailed life microoptimizations.
  - razakel 2mo ago
    I think people do, but it's subconsciously.
- mvkel 2mo ago
  Things are constantly changing. For example, a new building might have two or three tenants, so entire floors can be skipped. But then five years later, the whole building is full. I would bet that every new algorithm after LOOK is just differentiation in a competitive market.

shepherdjerred 2mo ago

I wonder if we'll see LLM elevator scheduling

fragmede 2mo ago
IBM's Watson has been used for elevator scheduling.
noisy_boy 2mo ago
I apologize for bringing you to the 29th floor instead of the 3rd floor as you requested. That's on me. I will do better next time.
- brookst 2mo ago
  I want to own something here: this is the fourth time in a row I’ve brought you to the 29th floor when you asked for the third. I am creating a memory to always go to the 3rd floor instead of the 29th, which should prevent this from happening again.
  - breakingcups 2mo ago
    Small wrinkle: the existing documentation indicates that the 29th floor is in fact the 3rd floor.
- ufmace 2mo ago
  Sorry, I forgot that this building only has 18 floors, it's on me that your elevator is now airborne.
  - ArekDymalski 2mo ago
    Would you like to learn more? If you meant an aircraft elevator or a building elevator malfunction, tell me more so I can give you the right facts.
Terr_ 2mo ago
Then it'll be time to make an entirely new software accreditation system, simply so that anyone building such a thing can be disbarred/excommunicated.
swiftcoder 2mo ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuFcIRlwdc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuFcIRlwdc
Ekaros 2mo ago
Most likely not. I think all the big players have been using more traditional ML approaches for years. Then again someone new might go there and fail miserably.
- swiftcoder 2mo ago
  This is an industry that evolves extremely slowly. A decade back one of the big players in this space was still using a software emulation of their original hardware relay logic, because it was cheaper than retraining all the technicians...
  - Ekaros 2mo ago
    It is just the reality that LLMs are not superior for this purpose. They are most likely very much inferior. There is no need to use language models for something that involve no language. I feel weirded each time LLMs are suggested for anything as some sort of holy solution for every single problem. Robot surgery let LLM control it. Robots cooking LLMs. Nuclear power plants and oil refineries LLMs... Industry has find a sledge hammer and now everything is a nail...
omoikane 2mo ago
It sounds like you are looking for Happy Vertical People Transporters with Genuine People Personalities.
- fuzzfactor 2mo ago
  No thanks, I'll take the alleviator :)
- bkleinwort 2mo ago
  As long as they're not afraid of the future!

_kb 2mo ago

The data is already there. This also gets more interesting when you expand the scope from just elevators to general building occupancy and movement. In the simplest sense, I've seen this tied into security gates so as people badge on when entering the building there's already suitable elevator movement to meet demand by time the foot traffic reaches the lift lobby. That can then also feed into destination dispatch if you move from just people counts to identity (and known/most likely work floor). From there you can move into wifi trilateration and have a live and quite accurate view of both how and who interacts with a physical space. This can feed into HVAC load shedding, JIT bookings for meeting rooms or workspaces, and a lot of very good things from a sustainability and general optimisation perspective. The flip side is it also has the potential to be an absolute dystopian privacy nightmare.

TeMPOraL 2mo ago
> (...) and a lot of very good things from a sustainability and general optimisation perspective. The flip side is it also has the potential to be an absolute dystopian privacy nightmare. Privacy is an illusion for most people, and in office spaces, it's also a red herring. Wifi trilateration doesn't make things worse when you have a CCTV camera on every corner, badge reader at every other door, and presence sensing in conference rooms. Dystopia does not materialize without a severe regime shift. Nah, my main worry is precisely sustainability and optimization, i.e. cost-cutting, because the more tools you give a business to optimize, and the more bullshit excuses ("sustainability! saving the planet!") you give a business, the worse the outcome is for users (here: employees). And a lot of that is doubly annoying, because it's counter-productive. So what you have smart sensors in every room, and combine it with badge readers and wifi trilat and what not, and have smart auto-routing/rebooking algorithm: half the week, all conference rooms are always booked full, and yet somehow when you physically go and check, a good half sits empty, and it's apparently an impossible problem to solve. So what the bathroom wall says, "with water-saving fixtures, we're using much less water in this building", and "we're now saving 2L water per flush". It's all bullshit, because those eco inventions mean I need to flush 3 times instead of once, and it means that I spend a minute washing my hands instead of 10 seconds - especially because both the soap and the dispenser are also optimized, so it takes 20 seconds to get enough soap on your hands, and then extra 20 seconds to get it off afterwards, because unlike normal people soap, it leaves your hands slippery for some reason. And then they say "scientists said you can dry your hands with just 2 paper towels". At that point I'm getting red, because yes, I saw that TED talk 15 years ago too, and yes, it's total bullshit. Maybe it was true then, but the industry and the beancounters have value-optimized paper towels 15 times since that. The generalization and summary of this rant is: slack is good. Happiness lives in slack. There is such thing as optimizing too much. Also the small, isolated systems under optimization, are in reality neither small nor isolated.

TeMPOraL 2mo ago

> Ideally a new elevator installation would have a trial period where they record usage There's a tricky problem here: as a user, the first thing you do upon discovering a new elevator, especially if you expect to be using it regularly, is to observe how it behaves and adjust your own expectations/behavior to it.

gpvos 2mo ago
I think you belong to a small percentage of the population doing that. Most people don't bother with such detailed life microoptimizations.
- razakel 2mo ago
  I think people do, but it's subconsciously.
mvkel 2mo ago
Things are constantly changing. For example, a new building might have two or three tenants, so entire floors can be skipped. But then five years later, the whole building is full. I would bet that every new algorithm after LOOK is just differentiation in a competitive market.