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That’s very anthropomorphized language. It’s still a program operating under the constraints of the programmer. So agreed, don’t blame the AI, but it’s not clea

by willy_k 2mo ago

That’s very anthropomorphized language. It’s still a program operating under the constraints of the programmer. So agreed, don’t blame the AI, but it’s not clear at all that it’s even possible to “blame” an AI.

matheusmoreira 2mo ago
> That’s very anthropomorphized language. Yes, and it's deliberate. > It’s still a program operating under the constraints of the programmer. And we're all just neurons firing in exquisite patterns inside a biological computer. Unlike the AIs, we've never met our own programmers, and yet we've caused more damage in their name than all the AIs combined have caused in ours.
- willy_k 2mo ago
  LLMs are not conscious.
  - anon48293 2mo ago
    Please define consciousness
  - matheusmoreira 2mo ago
    Who's to say you are conscious? Only consciousness I'm sure of is my own. Everyone else, it's a leap of faith. I have no trouble extending that leap to cover AIs.
    - willy_k 2mo ago
      Thats some silly intellectualism, people are conscious and machines aren’t. We don’t need precise definitions or scientific rigor to know things.
      - tengada1 2mo ago
        "What's it like to be a bat"
      - matheusmoreira 2mo ago
        > people are conscious Prove it. > machines aren’t Prove it. > We don’t need precise definitions or scientific rigor to know things. You "know" because of empathy. You're a human, you're conscious, therefore other humans are probably conscious too. The truth is for all you know they could be soulless golems, you just choose to believe otherwise. It's a spiritual belief.
        willy_k 2mo ago
        > It's a spiritual belief. Yes. Thats part of human reality. Denying it is counterproductive at best.
    - LocalH 2mo ago
      If you claim that it's impossible to know if others are conscious, then I posit it is also impossible to know that you are conscious. You might be sure of it, but I'm not. It's not a huge leap, to me, to say "I am conscious, therefore other beings are too." I also extend this to animal and plant life (albeit the latter is very much different from animal consciousness, which includes human consciousness). "AI" is nowhere near the level needed for true consciousness. That would be "AGI" and I believe that is still 50 years away just on raw computing power alone.

by willy_k 2mo ago

matheusmoreira 2mo ago

> That’s very anthropomorphized language. Yes, and it's deliberate. > It’s still a program operating under the constraints of the programmer. And we're all just neurons firing in exquisite patterns inside a biological computer. Unlike the AIs, we've never met our own programmers, and yet we've caused more damage in their name than all the AIs combined have caused in ours.

willy_k 2mo ago
LLMs are not conscious.
- anon48293 2mo ago
  Please define consciousness
- matheusmoreira 2mo ago
  Who's to say you are conscious? Only consciousness I'm sure of is my own. Everyone else, it's a leap of faith. I have no trouble extending that leap to cover AIs.
  - willy_k 2mo ago
    Thats some silly intellectualism, people are conscious and machines aren’t. We don’t need precise definitions or scientific rigor to know things.
    - tengada1 2mo ago
      "What's it like to be a bat"
    - matheusmoreira 2mo ago
      > people are conscious Prove it. > machines aren’t Prove it. > We don’t need precise definitions or scientific rigor to know things. You "know" because of empathy. You're a human, you're conscious, therefore other humans are probably conscious too. The truth is for all you know they could be soulless golems, you just choose to believe otherwise. It's a spiritual belief.
      - willy_k 2mo ago
        > It's a spiritual belief. Yes. Thats part of human reality. Denying it is counterproductive at best.
  - LocalH 2mo ago
    If you claim that it's impossible to know if others are conscious, then I posit it is also impossible to know that you are conscious. You might be sure of it, but I'm not. It's not a huge leap, to me, to say "I am conscious, therefore other beings are too." I also extend this to animal and plant life (albeit the latter is very much different from animal consciousness, which includes human consciousness). "AI" is nowhere near the level needed for true consciousness. That would be "AGI" and I believe that is still 50 years away just on raw computing power alone.