5 ms·

I understand the point you're making about blind devotion to Trump but the reality is that Biden is not free from blame here, in four ways: 1. Trump in his fir

by jmyeet 3mo ago

I understand the point you're making about blind devotion to Trump but the reality is that Biden is not free from blame here, in four ways: 1. Trump in his first term created the Abraham Accords that directly contributed to the genocide that has since happened (by excluding Palestinians from the process). Biden did not reverse any of that because he is an avowed Zionist; 2. Trump blew up the JCPOA that sought to include Iran in the international community for really no reason than to please his donors, particularly his biggest donors, Sheldon and Miriam Adelson, who are also avowed Zionists. This was an Obama-era deal and part of me is convinced that Trump blew it up simply because it had Obama's name on it. Biden of course did not reinstate it; 3. Trump blew up energy markets in 2020 with the disastrous OPEC deal he made in June that created the inflation shock of Covid. Biden quietly went to MBS to get him to increase oil output. He refused. Biden said nothing. He absolutely could've waved a very big stick to get MBS to change course here, notably by threatening arms shipments; and 4. The so-called "bear-hug strategy" following October 7 set the stage for everything that's happening now. At any point in the last more than a year of his term, Biden could've ended that conflict with a phone call. He did not because, again, he is an avowed Zionist. That both emboldened Israel to drag the US into the Iran war and also was a key factor in the Democrats losing the 2024 presidential election although I'm not actually convinced we'd be in a vastly different situation had Kamala won (eg [1]). US foreign policy is surprisingly uniparty. Oil is good for business because it's good for war. It's also why we don't have major investment in renewables. As this article put it, nobody goes to war over a solar panel [2]. [1]: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/8/kamala-harris-says-iran-is-greatest-adversary-of-us https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/8/kamala-harris-says-... [2]: https://www.theenergymix.com/no-one-goes-to-war-over-a-solar-panel/ https://www.theenergymix.com/no-one-goes-to-war-over-a-solar...

bayarearefugee 3mo ago
Oh, I'm not exactly a huge Joe Biden fan. I just think it is ridiculous that nobody "on the right" calls Trump on using him as a universal scapegoat for everything as we continue to fumble into an economic situation that Trump is consistently actively making worse. I think Biden did manage to enact some good domestic economic policy in a tough political environment, but in addition to everything you pointed out that I agree with he obviously should have stepped aside for the 2024 election long before he did and his decision to nominate Merrick Garland for Attorney General will be seen as one of those history book moments of very high consequence in the fall of an empire (assuming we have legitimate history books in this future). Plenty of blame to go around for many Democrats here for both the fact that our disastrous foreign policy is, as you've said, uniparty, and also their fecklessness and early boosting of the whole Trump project in 2016 (because they believed he would be easier to beat than the other Republicans) did a lot to set all of this in motion.
nikau 3mo ago
I can't understand the logic behind party A did something, and then blame party B for not undoing it. Not everything is a simple ctrl-z, and the blame lays squarely on who implemented it.
- lowbloodsugar 3mo ago
  A mugger stabs your friend and runs off. They are bleeding out. You do nothing. That’s what he’s saying. The fact is Biden did nothing to prevent this. Including not locking the fucker up. Not stacking the Supreme Court after the Ginsberg shitshow.
  - mittensc 3mo ago
    > They are bleeding out. You do nothing There are a lot of people that do not know what to do. There are also wounds that you can't really do anything about without hospital. (internal bleeding?!) The funny thing is, as analogies go, here the friend tells you to bugger off because of israel and tells the mugger to come back and help him... mugger stabs him some more
  - itake 3mo ago
    I hear you, but I really don't want the government flip flopping every 4-8 years on policy. "stuck in the past" vibes vs making progress
    - lowbloodsugar 3mo ago
      “I do not like flip flopping, so I’m gonna be a fascist too.”
      - itake 3mo ago
        Who are you quoting? I've voted democrat in every election since I was 18.
- jmyeet 3mo ago
  It's called the ratchet effect [1]. In our modern political paradigm, conservatives torch the economy, introduce heinous policies and give massive tax breaks to the wealthy until their popularity drops enough that Democrats get voted in and... do nothing. This has several names such as "controlled opposition" and the "mirage of dissent" [2]. As an example, take the current Iran war. There's very little opposition in establishment politics to the actual war. What you get instead are process objections, such as the president not consulting Congress. Objecting to the process is a way of appearing to be in opposition without being in opposition. This was ultimately why Kamala Harris lost the 2024 election. "Trump bad" isn't a platform that people get excited for. People are asking "what are you going to do about it?" and her answer was... nothing. It was the culmination of years of what's been called "lesser evil voting" or "harm reduction voting". Democrats have adopted a platform of just not being quite as bad as the Republicans, probably because they have the exact same donors. And millions of voters stayed home in 2024 rather than vote for the status quo. So back to the JCPOA, Biden should've done something but did nothing. Because he likes what Trump did. He agrees with it. And so do most Democrats. That's the point. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_effect [2]: https://ia800503.us.archive.org/5/items/mirage-of-dissent-the-mechanics-of-controlled-opposition/Mirage%20of%20Dissent_The%20Mechanics%20of%20Controlled%20Opposition.pdf https://ia800503.us.archive.org/5/items/mirage-of-dissent-th...
jmward01 3mo ago
No comment on the points you made, but thanks for the article No One Goes to War Over a Solar Panel' was a good read.
UltraSane 3mo ago
"he is an avowed Zionist" What exactly do you mean when you say Zionist?
- ryanwhitney 3mo ago
  I believe they're referring to when Joe Biden said "I am a Zionist."
  - UltraSane 3mo ago
    What did he mean then? Israel exists as a Jewish state so I really don't know what people mean when they say it.
    - nullsanity 3mo ago
      [dead]
    - piva00 3mo ago
      Zionism can be both the nationalist movement for making Israel a Jewish state as well as the interpretation that such a movement is inherently colonial and racist. So Zionism for Israelis might just mean "we support and advocate for a Jewish state in the land of Israel" which also includes two-state solutions but it can mean "we are a colonial and ethno-religious racist state" to the ones being displaced by the movement (like Palestinians).
      - UltraSane 3mo ago
        Using the same word for two completely different things is very confusing. Also the Arabs took the land from the Byzantine empire in the 7th century AD.
        piva00 3mo ago
        > Also the Arabs took the land from the Byzantine empire in the 7th century AD. A historical event from 1300 years ago is a bit irrelevant to contemporary issues.
lovich 3mo ago
> At any point in the last more than a year of his term, Biden could've ended that conflict with a phone call. He did not because, again, he is an avowed Zionist. No he could not have. Israel has been a contentious ally for the US, especially while a Democrat has been POTUS because they are actually independently capable of supporting themselves and have their own internal economy and military industrial complex. The relationship between the United States and Israel started with us(The United States) peeling them off of USSR support in the late 60s[1], and if we abandon them they will either go it on their own or find another ally who has interests in the region due to oil still being important. Biden as a representative of the United States had leverage over Israel, but not such complete control that he could just call Netanyahu and demand and end the war and have that be done with. And that's not even getting into whatever the fuck you mean by " ... he is an avowed Zionist" [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_and_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_and_the_Arab%E2%8...
- Cyph0n 3mo ago
  You can argue all day long, but at the end of the day, the US has immense ability to exert pressure on Israel, starting with withholding UNSC vetoes. The Biden admin pulled no levers whatsoever. On the contrary, it went to great lengths to cover for a genocide that it was aware of. This admin will be part of the history books, but not in a good light :)
  - lovich 3mo ago
    > ... US has immense ability to exert pressure on Israel, starting with withholding UNSC vetoes. You are 100% correct on this. That does not however mean they have the ability to end a war in one phone call > The Biden admin pulled no levers whatsoever. This is incorrect. Biden tried to constrain Netanyahu and did shit like making the pier to deliver aid to the Palestinians. Netanyahu responded by snubbing Biden and giving a speech to the Senate instead. I am generally anti Israel as the nation because I believe they have been a shit tier ally who feels free to fuck around in our elections with no remorse, but acting like we had the ability to force them into actions they didn't want, without using military force, is fucking ridiculous. Again, I think they are a piss poor ally, largely because they will not work with us, and that is largely because they have the ability to operate independently and utilize that ability constantly. If we got rid of any dependence on oil I would say fuck the whole region because every state there is in a competition over who can be the biggest assholes to us, with the possible slight exception of Jordan, and I cage that claim because I only know a decade or two of their history in relations with us and honestly mostly because one of their kings wanted to be in star trek so bad he got a spot as an extra, which implies some level of agreeing with our values.
rexpop 3mo ago
How is this not a total nonsequitur from the parent thread??
itake 3mo ago
edit: if you're going to down vote, at least explain why my news articles are incorrect. Are down voters saying Trump/Biden should let the provisions expire? --- On JCPOA, many of the critical provisions had pending expiration dates by this time [0] [1] and re-negotiation needed to happen again anyways. Obama kicked the can down the road and Trump/Biden needed to provide the next kick. [0] - Jan 2026, the limits on the types of centrifuges expire. Jan 2031, quantitative nuclear limits expire (enrichment ceiling). [1] - https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2017-10/news/iran-nuclear-deal-sunset-gets-scrutiny?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2017-10/news/iran-nuclear-de...
Cyph0n 3mo ago
Your analysis will be downvoted, but it is absolutely spot on. One day, everyone will always have been against this.
- frm88 3mo ago
  One day, everyone will always have been against this This is a very insightful book, highly recommend.
aaronsung 3mo ago
>The so-called "bear-hug strategy" following October 7 set the stage for everything that's happening now.....Biden could've ended that conflict with a phone call. Both sides have been preparing for the conflict for decades. The bomb that the US used to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, the GBU-57A/B MOP, began development in the early 2000s[1]. Iran has long supported the Houthis, who have been attacking Saudi Arabia, a key US ally in the Middle East and one of the main suppliers of oil to the West. Iran has been the major competitor to the US, or even the West, for a long period of time. Oct 7 is just a trigger point, like the Sarajevo assassination was the trigger point of WW1. > Trump blew up the JCPOA that sought to include Iran in the international community for really no reason than to please his donors Indeed, a few of the US allies in the Middle East, like the UAE, Saudi Arabia, as well as Bahrain, expressed concerns over the Iran nuclear deal[2]. We are entering a critical point in time, where Western civilization may not dominate the world anymore like it did for the past 300 years. There will be a lot of instability, though a lot of people fail to recognize that and are underprepared. [1] https://www.twz.com/air/gbu-57-massive-ordnance-penetrator-successor-in-the-works https://www.twz.com/air/gbu-57-massive-ordnance-penetrator-s... [2] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/5/9/world-leaders-react-to-us-withdrawal-from-iranian-nuclear-deal https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/5/9/world-leaders-react-...

by jmyeet 3mo ago

bayarearefugee 3mo ago

Oh, I'm not exactly a huge Joe Biden fan. I just think it is ridiculous that nobody "on the right" calls Trump on using him as a universal scapegoat for everything as we continue to fumble into an economic situation that Trump is consistently actively making worse. I think Biden did manage to enact some good domestic economic policy in a tough political environment, but in addition to everything you pointed out that I agree with he obviously should have stepped aside for the 2024 election long before he did and his decision to nominate Merrick Garland for Attorney General will be seen as one of those history book moments of very high consequence in the fall of an empire (assuming we have legitimate history books in this future). Plenty of blame to go around for many Democrats here for both the fact that our disastrous foreign policy is, as you've said, uniparty, and also their fecklessness and early boosting of the whole Trump project in 2016 (because they believed he would be easier to beat than the other Republicans) did a lot to set all of this in motion.

nikau 3mo ago

I can't understand the logic behind party A did something, and then blame party B for not undoing it. Not everything is a simple ctrl-z, and the blame lays squarely on who implemented it.

lowbloodsugar 3mo ago
A mugger stabs your friend and runs off. They are bleeding out. You do nothing. That’s what he’s saying. The fact is Biden did nothing to prevent this. Including not locking the fucker up. Not stacking the Supreme Court after the Ginsberg shitshow.
- mittensc 3mo ago
  > They are bleeding out. You do nothing There are a lot of people that do not know what to do. There are also wounds that you can't really do anything about without hospital. (internal bleeding?!) The funny thing is, as analogies go, here the friend tells you to bugger off because of israel and tells the mugger to come back and help him... mugger stabs him some more
- itake 3mo ago
  I hear you, but I really don't want the government flip flopping every 4-8 years on policy. "stuck in the past" vibes vs making progress
  - lowbloodsugar 3mo ago
    “I do not like flip flopping, so I’m gonna be a fascist too.”
    - itake 3mo ago
      Who are you quoting? I've voted democrat in every election since I was 18.
jmyeet 3mo ago
It's called the ratchet effect [1]. In our modern political paradigm, conservatives torch the economy, introduce heinous policies and give massive tax breaks to the wealthy until their popularity drops enough that Democrats get voted in and... do nothing. This has several names such as "controlled opposition" and the "mirage of dissent" [2]. As an example, take the current Iran war. There's very little opposition in establishment politics to the actual war. What you get instead are process objections, such as the president not consulting Congress. Objecting to the process is a way of appearing to be in opposition without being in opposition. This was ultimately why Kamala Harris lost the 2024 election. "Trump bad" isn't a platform that people get excited for. People are asking "what are you going to do about it?" and her answer was... nothing. It was the culmination of years of what's been called "lesser evil voting" or "harm reduction voting". Democrats have adopted a platform of just not being quite as bad as the Republicans, probably because they have the exact same donors. And millions of voters stayed home in 2024 rather than vote for the status quo. So back to the JCPOA, Biden should've done something but did nothing. Because he likes what Trump did. He agrees with it. And so do most Democrats. That's the point. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_effect [2]: https://ia800503.us.archive.org/5/items/mirage-of-dissent-the-mechanics-of-controlled-opposition/Mirage%20of%20Dissent_The%20Mechanics%20of%20Controlled%20Opposition.pdf https://ia800503.us.archive.org/5/items/mirage-of-dissent-th...

jmward01 3mo ago

No comment on the points you made, but thanks for the article No One Goes to War Over a Solar Panel' was a good read.

UltraSane 3mo ago

"he is an avowed Zionist" What exactly do you mean when you say Zionist?

ryanwhitney 3mo ago
I believe they're referring to when Joe Biden said "I am a Zionist."
- UltraSane 3mo ago
  What did he mean then? Israel exists as a Jewish state so I really don't know what people mean when they say it.
  - nullsanity 3mo ago
    [dead]
  - piva00 3mo ago
    Zionism can be both the nationalist movement for making Israel a Jewish state as well as the interpretation that such a movement is inherently colonial and racist. So Zionism for Israelis might just mean "we support and advocate for a Jewish state in the land of Israel" which also includes two-state solutions but it can mean "we are a colonial and ethno-religious racist state" to the ones being displaced by the movement (like Palestinians).
    - UltraSane 3mo ago
      Using the same word for two completely different things is very confusing. Also the Arabs took the land from the Byzantine empire in the 7th century AD.
      - piva00 3mo ago
        > Also the Arabs took the land from the Byzantine empire in the 7th century AD. A historical event from 1300 years ago is a bit irrelevant to contemporary issues.

lovich 3mo ago

> At any point in the last more than a year of his term, Biden could've ended that conflict with a phone call. He did not because, again, he is an avowed Zionist. No he could not have. Israel has been a contentious ally for the US, especially while a Democrat has been POTUS because they are actually independently capable of supporting themselves and have their own internal economy and military industrial complex. The relationship between the United States and Israel started with us(The United States) peeling them off of USSR support in the late 60s[1], and if we abandon them they will either go it on their own or find another ally who has interests in the region due to oil still being important. Biden as a representative of the United States had leverage over Israel, but not such complete control that he could just call Netanyahu and demand and end the war and have that be done with. And that's not even getting into whatever the fuck you mean by " ... he is an avowed Zionist" [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_and_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_and_the_Arab%E2%8...

Cyph0n 3mo ago
You can argue all day long, but at the end of the day, the US has immense ability to exert pressure on Israel, starting with withholding UNSC vetoes. The Biden admin pulled no levers whatsoever. On the contrary, it went to great lengths to cover for a genocide that it was aware of. This admin will be part of the history books, but not in a good light :)
- lovich 3mo ago
  > ... US has immense ability to exert pressure on Israel, starting with withholding UNSC vetoes. You are 100% correct on this. That does not however mean they have the ability to end a war in one phone call > The Biden admin pulled no levers whatsoever. This is incorrect. Biden tried to constrain Netanyahu and did shit like making the pier to deliver aid to the Palestinians. Netanyahu responded by snubbing Biden and giving a speech to the Senate instead. I am generally anti Israel as the nation because I believe they have been a shit tier ally who feels free to fuck around in our elections with no remorse, but acting like we had the ability to force them into actions they didn't want, without using military force, is fucking ridiculous. Again, I think they are a piss poor ally, largely because they will not work with us, and that is largely because they have the ability to operate independently and utilize that ability constantly. If we got rid of any dependence on oil I would say fuck the whole region because every state there is in a competition over who can be the biggest assholes to us, with the possible slight exception of Jordan, and I cage that claim because I only know a decade or two of their history in relations with us and honestly mostly because one of their kings wanted to be in star trek so bad he got a spot as an extra, which implies some level of agreeing with our values.

rexpop 3mo ago

How is this not a total nonsequitur from the parent thread??

itake 3mo ago

edit: if you're going to down vote, at least explain why my news articles are incorrect. Are down voters saying Trump/Biden should let the provisions expire? --- On JCPOA, many of the critical provisions had pending expiration dates by this time [0] [1] and re-negotiation needed to happen again anyways. Obama kicked the can down the road and Trump/Biden needed to provide the next kick. [0] - Jan 2026, the limits on the types of centrifuges expire. Jan 2031, quantitative nuclear limits expire (enrichment ceiling). [1] - https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2017-10/news/iran-nuclear-deal-sunset-gets-scrutiny?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2017-10/news/iran-nuclear-de...

Cyph0n 3mo ago

Your analysis will be downvoted, but it is absolutely spot on. One day, everyone will always have been against this.

frm88 3mo ago
One day, everyone will always have been against this This is a very insightful book, highly recommend.

aaronsung 3mo ago

>The so-called "bear-hug strategy" following October 7 set the stage for everything that's happening now.....Biden could've ended that conflict with a phone call. Both sides have been preparing for the conflict for decades. The bomb that the US used to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, the GBU-57A/B MOP, began development in the early 2000s[1]. Iran has long supported the Houthis, who have been attacking Saudi Arabia, a key US ally in the Middle East and one of the main suppliers of oil to the West. Iran has been the major competitor to the US, or even the West, for a long period of time. Oct 7 is just a trigger point, like the Sarajevo assassination was the trigger point of WW1. > Trump blew up the JCPOA that sought to include Iran in the international community for really no reason than to please his donors Indeed, a few of the US allies in the Middle East, like the UAE, Saudi Arabia, as well as Bahrain, expressed concerns over the Iran nuclear deal[2]. We are entering a critical point in time, where Western civilization may not dominate the world anymore like it did for the past 300 years. There will be a lot of instability, though a lot of people fail to recognize that and are underprepared. [1] https://www.twz.com/air/gbu-57-massive-ordnance-penetrator-successor-in-the-works https://www.twz.com/air/gbu-57-massive-ordnance-penetrator-s... [2] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/5/9/world-leaders-react-to-us-withdrawal-from-iranian-nuclear-deal https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/5/9/world-leaders-react-...