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Article should be titled 'The Lost Civic Life of Mom and Pop Stores'- no kid making $4.50 an hour is cultivating a third space atmosphere at Blockbuster, wherea

by panzagl 2mo ago

Article should be titled 'The Lost Civic Life of Mom and Pop Stores'- no kid making $4.50 an hour is cultivating a third space atmosphere at Blockbuster, whereas any Mom and Pop place can do that, no matter what they sell.

steveBK123 2mo ago
I was thinking about the loss of local shops a lot recently. There's definitely a confluence of factors at play, and it's not just price economics vs online & big box. One thing I think is that theres just never enough time. Everyone is so over-scheduled. The white collar work day really has expanded vs what I remember my dad doing 30-40 years ago. There's more two income households than in the past. Parenting is far more active for both parents than it's ever been, and kids are being shuttled between events all weekend. Most local shops are not open past 5pm or at best 6pm, and often closed Sunday. Who is off work by then to stop by? Easier to click buy on amazon, and stop by the big box store after dinner Saturday open til 9pm for anything you need sooner.
- bix6 2mo ago
  Was just talking with an older colleague about this. Work used to end Friday afternoon. The amount of emails I get (and send) over the weekend means there is truly never any off time.
  - liveoneggs 2mo ago
    reading and responding to those on the weekend is your choice
    - bix6 2mo ago
      Yeah that’s a privileged point of view. You lose clients if you aren’t responsive enough.
      - blitzar 2mo ago
        Yeah that’s a privileged point of view. You lose your job if you aren’t responsive enough.
    - afavour 2mo ago
      It isn’t, really. If it’s the expected norm in your job then there’s a real chance you’ll lose your job if you don’t do it. And particularly the kind of jobs market we see today that’s a real risk.
      - SoftTalker 2mo ago
        Actually not for most people. This is a peculiarity mostly of the tech industry. Most people don't read their work email after 5:00.
        zbikowski 2mo ago
        I'm not sure what authority you have on this subject, but anecdotally speaking as a non-software engineer who would lump himself with "most people," when it comes to white-collar work, I have noticed that all of my colleagues are, at the very least, expected to read email during time off (weekend or PTO) if not respond. This applies to adjacent industries as well. I semi-regularly get email from firms (in the same time zone as mine) in the 11PM–2AM range. Again, I'm not purporting to have any more experience than you do, but you can't assert that this is a tech-industry-only phenomenon when I am sure applicable examples other than my own could be found. I wish I could go without, but spending the first billable hour catching up on email is not really acceptable.
        SoftTalker 2mo ago
        Fair enough, I'm only speaking about the people I know and work with.
        ryandrake 2mo ago
        I think this varies widely across industries and jobs. You're both right. I've personally seen both types of jobs. I quit one and joined the other.
        alex0015 2mo ago
        In my experience in white-collar and tech jobs since 2019, nobody I've ever worked with has been expected to be reachable after hours. Same goes for my wife, all tech jobs as well. If someone messages me and I'm online, I'll answer, and it's about 50/50 that they say "Oh you didn't need to respond this late, just work on this tomorrow!" Sample size of six jobs total, three per person.
- toofy 2mo ago
  the time thing rings very true to me as blocker. when i get off work i would absolutely (and do) shop at stores that are open. i stopped 90% of online shopping a couple years ago so once i regained the lay of the land of where to get what, shopping at mom and pop stores is tough since they seem to close right when everyone gets off work. larger chain stores seem to keep longer hours so they get more of my business than i’d like. even then i’m still happier than when i bought everything online, no question about it.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  It's rent. We are all working so hard to pay the rent. Which always expands to take any money available and then some. It's stack-ranking us on working hours.
msisk6 2mo ago
Whenever I see these sorts of stories I think about the civic life we're missing out on by not socially gathering with our neighbors to hunt down woolly mammoths with sharp sticks so we don't all collectively starve to death. The way things are going maybe we'll get back to those wonderful days. ;)
- bix6 2mo ago
  Sounds a lot more fun to me than sitting in front of a computer all day.
  - Cthulhu_ 2mo ago
    Availability and legality of wooly mammoths aside, what's stopping you? Pointy stick hunting sounds like a great weekend activity.
    - criddell 2mo ago
      A bunch of families in the town I grew up in bought a fairly large cabin together in northern Ontario they just called "the hunting camp". My family wasn't involved but I got to go up there quite a few times as a guest of my friends. In theory, the adults were hunting or fishing (although not with pointy sticks). In reality they were smoking, drinking, playing cards, screwing around on the little boat and atvs that were there (three wheelers!), and telling lies around a campfire. Us kids were pretty much on our own the entire time. We too were smoking, drinking, and screwing around on the boat and atvs. So I agree with you- pointy stick hunting is a great weekend activity.
      - xp84 2mo ago
        God, that sounds like absolute paradise. Either as a kid or a grown-up.
        criddell 2mo ago
        It was great except for the insects and lack of showers. So many bug bites.
liveoneggs 2mo ago
half the article is nostalgia for the blockbuster job
threetonesun 2mo ago
I don't think that's really what we've lost. Blockbuster was a third space not because of its staff, but because it was a place you could say "meet me here" and hang out looking at movies with no (or very little) expected monetary output. Same as arcades in the mall, or cheap matinee movies. A better framing might be where would a teenager, today, say "meet me here" to their friends. I think you'll find there's many fewer around you today than there was 20 years ago.
- triceratops 2mo ago
  Malls still exist. As do public libraries, community rec centers, gyms, and pools.
  - threetonesun 2mo ago
    Malls barely exist, at least compared to the way they did 20 years ago. I wasn't arguing all third spaces are gone, but even of the ones you did note I'd bet in most communities their funding/availability has decreased in that time period.
    - triceratops 2mo ago
      > Malls barely exist, at least compared to the way they did 20 years ago Presumably because people spend less money there than they used to. > I'd bet in most communities their funding/availability has decreased in that time period. It's one of the tragedies of our age. The inability to fund anything for the common good.
  - autoexec 2mo ago
    Malls have been in decline for decades. Public pools barely exist anymore either. (https://www.poolmagazine.com/pool-news/america-is-losing-public-pools-at-an-alarming-rate/ https://www.poolmagazine.com/pool-news/america-is-losing-pub...). If you're in a wealthy city you probably still have a decent community center. Libraries are probably the most common space avilable, but they are also under constant attack by republicans. In wealthy cities you can find all kinds of services there. Smaller libraries will have some areas for reading and meeting.
pimlottc 2mo ago
Places don't need to be curated to have value as civic spaces, although it certainly helps. Seniors hang out at the local McDonalds, car modding enthusiasts gather in strip mall parking lots, singles meet at the dog park... Any place you have to physically go to provides a chance for social interaction. To debate your friends over what movie to pick, to comment on your neighbor's selections, to ask a clerk for a recommendation. Are these pretty slight? Sure, but life is made fuller by these minor brushes, and you never know which ones will unexpectedly bloom into something more.
AngryData 2mo ago
The only non-bar place with an social atmosphere that I even know of anymore is one town nearby has a hardware store that has the old family line running it that the father and grandfather can sit around shooting the shit in it as a semi-job as they let their kids manage and operate it. And so a lot of other grey beards like to hang around for awhile when they go to pick up a can of 3-in-1 oil or a can of paint because they have known these people for 60+ years. They did have to move to a more prime location in town as the town shrank over the decades, and they also added a gun/sportings good section, and then one son learned gunsmithing to make its otherwise limited size and selection more useful. But that is certainly not the norm, im not sure if I could find another hardware store like it within 100 miles. The social atmosphere probably barely manages to bring in the extra business needed to maintain it and it took 3 consecutive generations working well enough together and towards their customers to never break the strong community bond.
chrisco255 2mo ago
I made $6 an hour working at a video game store in the early 00s and most of our employees would chat it up with other gamers all the time. We had lots of regulars.
balderdash 2mo ago
100% I miss my local pharmacy. Knew the family that owned it and worked there (not well but enough to say hello), really enjoyed occasionally having breakfast as the lunch counter on a Saturday morning. So much better than going to cvs or Walgreens etc.

by panzagl 2mo ago

steveBK123 2mo ago

I was thinking about the loss of local shops a lot recently. There's definitely a confluence of factors at play, and it's not just price economics vs online & big box. One thing I think is that theres just never enough time. Everyone is so over-scheduled. The white collar work day really has expanded vs what I remember my dad doing 30-40 years ago. There's more two income households than in the past. Parenting is far more active for both parents than it's ever been, and kids are being shuttled between events all weekend. Most local shops are not open past 5pm or at best 6pm, and often closed Sunday. Who is off work by then to stop by? Easier to click buy on amazon, and stop by the big box store after dinner Saturday open til 9pm for anything you need sooner.

bix6 2mo ago
Was just talking with an older colleague about this. Work used to end Friday afternoon. The amount of emails I get (and send) over the weekend means there is truly never any off time.
- liveoneggs 2mo ago
  reading and responding to those on the weekend is your choice
  - bix6 2mo ago
    Yeah that’s a privileged point of view. You lose clients if you aren’t responsive enough.
    - blitzar 2mo ago
      Yeah that’s a privileged point of view. You lose your job if you aren’t responsive enough.
  - afavour 2mo ago
    It isn’t, really. If it’s the expected norm in your job then there’s a real chance you’ll lose your job if you don’t do it. And particularly the kind of jobs market we see today that’s a real risk.
    - SoftTalker 2mo ago
      Actually not for most people. This is a peculiarity mostly of the tech industry. Most people don't read their work email after 5:00.
      - zbikowski 2mo ago
        I'm not sure what authority you have on this subject, but anecdotally speaking as a non-software engineer who would lump himself with "most people," when it comes to white-collar work, I have noticed that all of my colleagues are, at the very least, expected to read email during time off (weekend or PTO) if not respond. This applies to adjacent industries as well. I semi-regularly get email from firms (in the same time zone as mine) in the 11PM–2AM range. Again, I'm not purporting to have any more experience than you do, but you can't assert that this is a tech-industry-only phenomenon when I am sure applicable examples other than my own could be found. I wish I could go without, but spending the first billable hour catching up on email is not really acceptable.
        SoftTalker 2mo ago
        Fair enough, I'm only speaking about the people I know and work with.
        ryandrake 2mo ago
        I think this varies widely across industries and jobs. You're both right. I've personally seen both types of jobs. I quit one and joined the other.
      - alex0015 2mo ago
        In my experience in white-collar and tech jobs since 2019, nobody I've ever worked with has been expected to be reachable after hours. Same goes for my wife, all tech jobs as well. If someone messages me and I'm online, I'll answer, and it's about 50/50 that they say "Oh you didn't need to respond this late, just work on this tomorrow!" Sample size of six jobs total, three per person.
toofy 2mo ago
the time thing rings very true to me as blocker. when i get off work i would absolutely (and do) shop at stores that are open. i stopped 90% of online shopping a couple years ago so once i regained the lay of the land of where to get what, shopping at mom and pop stores is tough since they seem to close right when everyone gets off work. larger chain stores seem to keep longer hours so they get more of my business than i’d like. even then i’m still happier than when i bought everything online, no question about it.
inigyou 2mo ago
It's rent. We are all working so hard to pay the rent. Which always expands to take any money available and then some. It's stack-ranking us on working hours.

msisk6 2mo ago

Whenever I see these sorts of stories I think about the civic life we're missing out on by not socially gathering with our neighbors to hunt down woolly mammoths with sharp sticks so we don't all collectively starve to death. The way things are going maybe we'll get back to those wonderful days. ;)

bix6 2mo ago
Sounds a lot more fun to me than sitting in front of a computer all day.
- Cthulhu_ 2mo ago
  Availability and legality of wooly mammoths aside, what's stopping you? Pointy stick hunting sounds like a great weekend activity.
  - criddell 2mo ago
    A bunch of families in the town I grew up in bought a fairly large cabin together in northern Ontario they just called "the hunting camp". My family wasn't involved but I got to go up there quite a few times as a guest of my friends. In theory, the adults were hunting or fishing (although not with pointy sticks). In reality they were smoking, drinking, playing cards, screwing around on the little boat and atvs that were there (three wheelers!), and telling lies around a campfire. Us kids were pretty much on our own the entire time. We too were smoking, drinking, and screwing around on the boat and atvs. So I agree with you- pointy stick hunting is a great weekend activity.
    - xp84 2mo ago
      God, that sounds like absolute paradise. Either as a kid or a grown-up.
      - criddell 2mo ago
        It was great except for the insects and lack of showers. So many bug bites.

liveoneggs 2mo ago

half the article is nostalgia for the blockbuster job

threetonesun 2mo ago

I don't think that's really what we've lost. Blockbuster was a third space not because of its staff, but because it was a place you could say "meet me here" and hang out looking at movies with no (or very little) expected monetary output. Same as arcades in the mall, or cheap matinee movies. A better framing might be where would a teenager, today, say "meet me here" to their friends. I think you'll find there's many fewer around you today than there was 20 years ago.

triceratops 2mo ago
Malls still exist. As do public libraries, community rec centers, gyms, and pools.
- threetonesun 2mo ago
  Malls barely exist, at least compared to the way they did 20 years ago. I wasn't arguing all third spaces are gone, but even of the ones you did note I'd bet in most communities their funding/availability has decreased in that time period.
  - triceratops 2mo ago
    > Malls barely exist, at least compared to the way they did 20 years ago Presumably because people spend less money there than they used to. > I'd bet in most communities their funding/availability has decreased in that time period. It's one of the tragedies of our age. The inability to fund anything for the common good.
- autoexec 2mo ago
  Malls have been in decline for decades. Public pools barely exist anymore either. (https://www.poolmagazine.com/pool-news/america-is-losing-public-pools-at-an-alarming-rate/ https://www.poolmagazine.com/pool-news/america-is-losing-pub...). If you're in a wealthy city you probably still have a decent community center. Libraries are probably the most common space avilable, but they are also under constant attack by republicans. In wealthy cities you can find all kinds of services there. Smaller libraries will have some areas for reading and meeting.

pimlottc 2mo ago

Places don't need to be curated to have value as civic spaces, although it certainly helps. Seniors hang out at the local McDonalds, car modding enthusiasts gather in strip mall parking lots, singles meet at the dog park... Any place you have to physically go to provides a chance for social interaction. To debate your friends over what movie to pick, to comment on your neighbor's selections, to ask a clerk for a recommendation. Are these pretty slight? Sure, but life is made fuller by these minor brushes, and you never know which ones will unexpectedly bloom into something more.

AngryData 2mo ago

The only non-bar place with an social atmosphere that I even know of anymore is one town nearby has a hardware store that has the old family line running it that the father and grandfather can sit around shooting the shit in it as a semi-job as they let their kids manage and operate it. And so a lot of other grey beards like to hang around for awhile when they go to pick up a can of 3-in-1 oil or a can of paint because they have known these people for 60+ years. They did have to move to a more prime location in town as the town shrank over the decades, and they also added a gun/sportings good section, and then one son learned gunsmithing to make its otherwise limited size and selection more useful. But that is certainly not the norm, im not sure if I could find another hardware store like it within 100 miles. The social atmosphere probably barely manages to bring in the extra business needed to maintain it and it took 3 consecutive generations working well enough together and towards their customers to never break the strong community bond.

chrisco255 2mo ago

I made $6 an hour working at a video game store in the early 00s and most of our employees would chat it up with other gamers all the time. We had lots of regulars.

balderdash 2mo ago

100% I miss my local pharmacy. Knew the family that owned it and worked there (not well but enough to say hello), really enjoyed occasionally having breakfast as the lunch counter on a Saturday morning. So much better than going to cvs or Walgreens etc.