3 ms·

Starling: The first real desktop written by AI

20 points by signa11 3mo ago

kstenerud 3mo ago
Nicely done! This is an example of how engineering discipline mixed with good agent guidance can avoid the slop. A couple of things: - The test pyramid (static -> unit -> functional -> VM release gate) works but is dependent on someone remembering to run it locally. Some kind of CI would help here. - The C++ Swift interop layer has some huge files. Understandable given that you're porting the framework rather than reimplementing it, but right now it's the least documented, most god-object part of the codebase.
- starlingos 3mo ago
  Thanks for the suggestions. Ci is on the way.
rvz 3mo ago
So this is yet another Linux desktop environment (DE) But with “AI”.
emsign 3mo ago
No, thanks. I'll give this a pass.
applfanboysbgon 3mo ago
If you want to say you're not like other girls and make a point of differentiating yourself from other people claiming to have made an LLM-generated desktop, the least you could do is take ten fucking minutes out of your supposed 6 month effort and write the description of what you've done yourself. When I see an obviously AI-generated website with obviously AI-generated copy, I have negative infinity reasons to believe you've put 6 months of human effort into this project. If you actually did, you're really not doing yourself any favors by not being willing to put a few minutes into presentation.
- starlingos 3mo ago
  https://starling.build/why.html https://starling.build/why.html
  - applfanboysbgon 3mo ago
    Simply copy-pasting an AI-generated essay to someone criticising your complete lack of effort, thereby proving the point, is certainly a choice.
ghlancet 3mo ago
Who would use this? There is no known author for starling. We don't know if a single person plagiarized another Window Manager, if it is a company or FSB effort. Right now it is just another marketing stunt.
- starlingos 3mo ago
  Author here, I am human. All code are open source.
mindwok 3mo ago
This post makes me feel grief. I mean no offence to you OP, this looks like a beautiful desktop and I am sure there was a lot of time put into this. But just sharing my grief. 3 years ago if I saw a post on the HN front page about a desktop environment written in Flutter (or a Swift port of Flutter), I'd be absolutely blown away. Now, I see this, and I feel nothing. I'm not impressed. I don't want to know how it works. I'm not going to read 300k lines of AI slop code. I don't care about architectural decisions made because they're not made under any true constraints. I'm not even excited about the AI part of it, because I know AI can do this. We could all build this if we just prompt hard enough. I'm tired, boss.
- glimshe 3mo ago
  I know the feeling but only people in our community care about how the software sausage is made. The customer only cares about results and it's great that AI can deliver results quickly. What I'm still waiting to see is evidence of reliability, performance and UX cohesion in these vibe coded applications.
  - lyu07282 3mo ago
    Except for gamers, they are even more virulently anti-AI than this community is.
    - emsign 3mo ago
      This community is very pro-AI. Just look at the top news, sometimes it's 3/4 AI topics. AI topics get hundreds of likes, AI critical news or stuff that hints at problems and undesirable consequences of the AI boom only get a fraction of it. HN readers just do not care. The majority here is hyped about AI. HN changed a lot since the LLM boom, not to the better, it got really boring in fact.
      - lyu07282 3mo ago
        That is true but in the comments there are always negative sentiments, sometimes overwhelmingly so.
loopmonster 3mo ago
AI prose is great at celebrating whatever you told it to celebrate, but it always misses the most important detail: why should I care?
- trevoristall 3mo ago
  That was my immediate thought as well. "Ok, you built a desktop environment. Why? What can it do that can't be easily obtained elsewhere?"
VCFundedGenYer 3mo ago
I don't understand why this exists or why anyone would use it. It just looks like Cinnamon with a b00merang macOS skin. So if there's a critical bug or security vulnerability, are you prepared to support it? If not, why bother making this? Everyone will rather opt for one of the proven distros/desktops.
- starlingos 3mo ago
  There is a why section on why I want to build this project: https://starling.build/why.html https://starling.build/why.html. Yes AI will fix all the bugs, just like it did in https://github.com/starling-build/starling/issues/5 https://github.com/starling-build/starling/issues/5. Given other proven desktops may have strong anti AI policies, I think this project can out run them.
lyu07282 3mo ago
Weird, the swift port of flutter seems waaaay more interesting than the desktop itself. Was it just the dart code of flutter ported or the runtime too? /edit Nevermind 'just' dart: https://github.com/starling-build/starling-engine#what-starling-added--owns https://github.com/starling-build/starling-engine#what-starl... Still that part is kind of cool, 273K LOCs of the 335K
- starlingos 3mo ago
  Yeah, I do plan to split the swift port into a separate project, so it can run on any platforms that swift can run on.
librasteve 3mo ago
I think this is quite interesting… - another proof point that AI upends project economics - AI will soon be able to make custom desktops and apps (msoffice clone anyone) that will undermine historic monopolies - if you are not doing to them they are doing it to you - makes language & framework a “don’t care”
gen2brain 3mo ago
Well, AI or not, it is interesting to see Swift and Flutter without Dart. But is SNI Tray there? I see something in the top-right corner of that panel, but I'm not sure what it is.
- starlingos 3mo ago
  There is no SNI tray yet. Top right corner is network, battery status.
joshcorbin 3mo ago
So basically it's really similar to Niri, but with a widget framework and bar bolted into it, and a rather nice glass shader; imo it's not AI that made the "cost of building a desktop" collapse, but rather the iceberg of architecture and prior art that is the burgeoning scene of other tiling wayland compositors, like Niri, River, Hyprland, Sway, etc...
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]

20 points by signa11 3mo ago

Nicely done! This is an example of how engineering discipline mixed with good agent guidance can avoid the slop. A couple of things: - The test pyramid (static -> unit -> functional -> VM release gate) works but is dependent on someone remembering to run it locally. Some kind of CI would help here. - The C++ Swift interop layer has some huge files. Understandable given that you're porting the framework rather than reimplementing it, but right now it's the least documented, most god-object part of the codebase.

starlingos 3mo ago
Thanks for the suggestions. Ci is on the way.

rvz 3mo ago

So this is yet another Linux desktop environment (DE) But with “AI”.

emsign 3mo ago

No, thanks. I'll give this a pass.

applfanboysbgon 3mo ago

If you want to say you're not like other girls and make a point of differentiating yourself from other people claiming to have made an LLM-generated desktop, the least you could do is take ten fucking minutes out of your supposed 6 month effort and write the description of what you've done yourself. When I see an obviously AI-generated website with obviously AI-generated copy, I have negative infinity reasons to believe you've put 6 months of human effort into this project. If you actually did, you're really not doing yourself any favors by not being willing to put a few minutes into presentation.

starlingos 3mo ago
https://starling.build/why.html https://starling.build/why.html
- applfanboysbgon 3mo ago
  Simply copy-pasting an AI-generated essay to someone criticising your complete lack of effort, thereby proving the point, is certainly a choice.

ghlancet 3mo ago

Who would use this? There is no known author for starling. We don't know if a single person plagiarized another Window Manager, if it is a company or FSB effort. Right now it is just another marketing stunt.

starlingos 3mo ago
Author here, I am human. All code are open source.

mindwok 3mo ago

This post makes me feel grief. I mean no offence to you OP, this looks like a beautiful desktop and I am sure there was a lot of time put into this. But just sharing my grief. 3 years ago if I saw a post on the HN front page about a desktop environment written in Flutter (or a Swift port of Flutter), I'd be absolutely blown away. Now, I see this, and I feel nothing. I'm not impressed. I don't want to know how it works. I'm not going to read 300k lines of AI slop code. I don't care about architectural decisions made because they're not made under any true constraints. I'm not even excited about the AI part of it, because I know AI can do this. We could all build this if we just prompt hard enough. I'm tired, boss.

glimshe 3mo ago
I know the feeling but only people in our community care about how the software sausage is made. The customer only cares about results and it's great that AI can deliver results quickly. What I'm still waiting to see is evidence of reliability, performance and UX cohesion in these vibe coded applications.
- lyu07282 3mo ago
  Except for gamers, they are even more virulently anti-AI than this community is.
  - emsign 3mo ago
    This community is very pro-AI. Just look at the top news, sometimes it's 3/4 AI topics. AI topics get hundreds of likes, AI critical news or stuff that hints at problems and undesirable consequences of the AI boom only get a fraction of it. HN readers just do not care. The majority here is hyped about AI. HN changed a lot since the LLM boom, not to the better, it got really boring in fact.
    - lyu07282 3mo ago
      That is true but in the comments there are always negative sentiments, sometimes overwhelmingly so.

loopmonster 3mo ago

AI prose is great at celebrating whatever you told it to celebrate, but it always misses the most important detail: why should I care?

trevoristall 3mo ago
That was my immediate thought as well. "Ok, you built a desktop environment. Why? What can it do that can't be easily obtained elsewhere?"

VCFundedGenYer 3mo ago

I don't understand why this exists or why anyone would use it. It just looks like Cinnamon with a b00merang macOS skin. So if there's a critical bug or security vulnerability, are you prepared to support it? If not, why bother making this? Everyone will rather opt for one of the proven distros/desktops.

starlingos 3mo ago
There is a why section on why I want to build this project: https://starling.build/why.html https://starling.build/why.html. Yes AI will fix all the bugs, just like it did in https://github.com/starling-build/starling/issues/5 https://github.com/starling-build/starling/issues/5. Given other proven desktops may have strong anti AI policies, I think this project can out run them.

lyu07282 3mo ago

Weird, the swift port of flutter seems waaaay more interesting than the desktop itself. Was it just the dart code of flutter ported or the runtime too? /edit Nevermind 'just' dart: https://github.com/starling-build/starling-engine#what-starling-added--owns https://github.com/starling-build/starling-engine#what-starl... Still that part is kind of cool, 273K LOCs of the 335K

starlingos 3mo ago
Yeah, I do plan to split the swift port into a separate project, so it can run on any platforms that swift can run on.

librasteve 3mo ago

I think this is quite interesting… - another proof point that AI upends project economics - AI will soon be able to make custom desktops and apps (msoffice clone anyone) that will undermine historic monopolies - if you are not doing to them they are doing it to you - makes language & framework a “don’t care”

gen2brain 3mo ago

Well, AI or not, it is interesting to see Swift and Flutter without Dart. But is SNI Tray there? I see something in the top-right corner of that panel, but I'm not sure what it is.

starlingos 3mo ago
There is no SNI tray yet. Top right corner is network, battery status.

joshcorbin 3mo ago

So basically it's really similar to Niri, but with a widget framework and bar bolted into it, and a rather nice glass shader; imo it's not AI that made the "cost of building a desktop" collapse, but rather the iceberg of architecture and prior art that is the burgeoning scene of other tiling wayland compositors, like Niri, River, Hyprland, Sway, etc...

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]