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Seems like OpenAI should be shut down by regulators until they can figure out how to stop launching cyberattacks on rivals. This will not happen though, becaus

Seems like OpenAI should be shut down by regulators until they can figure out how to stop launching cyberattacks on rivals. This will not happen though, because these stories are marketing.

0xDEAFBEAD 3mo ago
>Seems like OpenAI should be shut down by regulators until they can figure out how to stop launching cyberattacks on rivals. Agreed. >This will not happen though, because these stories are marketing. Regulators should investigate the stories, and shut things down if they are real, announce the ruse if they are false.
- tellwilhelm 3mo ago
  [dead]
- polotics 3mo ago
  Which regulators though? There is no AI regulator that I know of, and I'm not sure they should be one. Exaggerated marketing blurb is pretty legal, right?
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 3mo ago
    I don't know. But didn't HF contact law enforcement? Would this be a violation of the CFAA?
mosura 3mo ago
What they should have is a separate network full of honeypots which they use for this, and that they run an operation to train models to identify intrusion attempts in real time based on the resulting data. As you said though, that wouldn’t have the desired effect.
- andai 3mo ago
  You mean a fake copy of the entire internet? Well they already scraped it all! Heck, they can use Cerebras to generate HTTP responses dynamically!
- elif 3mo ago
  How do you hide the fact that they are honeypots from a super intelligence?
  - mosura 3mo ago
    It doesn’t behave like a super intelligence because it is not. One of the key strengths agents have is they just keep going and going, and for cyberattacks that is often unreasonably effective. It is like a barely more aware fuzzing.
  - embedding-shape 3mo ago
    These tools literally can only do what you give them access to, give them access to general tools like a linux shell and they can access to everything that comes with that obviously. The security industry figured out sandboxing and isolation a long time ago. You wanna be 100% sure it doesn't break out on open internet? Run it on a airgapped machine and don't give it network connections. OpenAI is (sadly) demonstrating they aren't responsible nor knowledgeable enough to actually run these experiments. Asking a agent harness to try whatever it wants to achieve some results, without guardrails, while running in lightweight isolation on 3rd party infrastructure? Feels like they didn't even try, people should be held responsible for this.
  - nvme0n1p1 3mo ago
    We can cross that bridge once we have a super intelligence to worry about.
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 3mo ago
      If the superintelligence thinks way faster than you, you'll want to be well prepared in advance.
cryo32 3mo ago
They should shut them down immediately then investigate. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary measures. If it’s rubbish those stories will stop instantly.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago
  > They should shut them down immediately then investigate. Yeah, I don't understand either. If there was a "hitman for hire" service on the clearweb, the police would shut it down first, then ask questions. Now we have a huge company effectively letting AI agents without guardrails run amok on 3rd party infrastructure, and the police is doing nothing?
PoignardAzur 3mo ago
> This will not happen though, because these stories are marketing. The magnitude and the complexity of the cynicism displayed by some people when it comes to AI risks is mind-blowing. It's like if the NRA reported on school shootings and people said "oh, they probably fake these shootings to make guns sound dangerous and sell more of them". OpenAI could report that its AI started spontaneously generating illegal porn and sending it to people and you'd still think it was a marketing stunt.
- dgellow 3mo ago
  It’s honestly something the AI vendors brought on themselves, and the fact the current US government is a bunch of corrupt kleptocrats
- mosura 3mo ago
  It is because a loud part of the doomerist contingent believe only a major disaster will provide the motivation for regulation, so they are practically hoping to cultivate a major disaster. (Given their preoccupation with bioweapons that probably means a pandemic). This is based on similar thinking to how the world would not have considered nuclear weapons a major threat if they had forever stayed unused. The irony of the doomer position is it achieves exactly their supposed nightmare scenario of disaster leading to authoritarian world government without any of the supposed benefits, the twist being they get to be the authoritarian world government so they are ok with it.
  - PoignardAzur 3mo ago
    So your assessment of the "doomerist" position is that they believe people aren't taking AI risks seriously enough, and that only a large enough catastrophe will wake people up, and your position is we should... Ignore increasingly blatant minor catastrophes to spite them?
    - mosura 3mo ago
      This isn’t a minor catastrophe. It is OpenAI being utterly irresponsible by not sandboxing their testing appropriately, to the point it has to be deliberate to provoke uneducated hysteria, which it obviously, sadly, achieves. Sandboxing processes on networks is not exactly rocket science, and it is something their existing products would readily help them setup.
dgellow 3mo ago
Completely irresponsible to let them continue doing business as usual. That should be a complete pause of activity and FBI investigation
jmpz 3mo ago
What regulators are in charge of this?

Seems like OpenAI should be shut down by regulators until they can figure out how to stop launching cyberattacks on rivals. This will not happen though, because these stories are marketing.

0xDEAFBEAD 3mo ago

>Seems like OpenAI should be shut down by regulators until they can figure out how to stop launching cyberattacks on rivals. Agreed. >This will not happen though, because these stories are marketing. Regulators should investigate the stories, and shut things down if they are real, announce the ruse if they are false.

tellwilhelm 3mo ago
[dead]
polotics 3mo ago
Which regulators though? There is no AI regulator that I know of, and I'm not sure they should be one. Exaggerated marketing blurb is pretty legal, right?
- 0xDEAFBEAD 3mo ago
  I don't know. But didn't HF contact law enforcement? Would this be a violation of the CFAA?

mosura 3mo ago

What they should have is a separate network full of honeypots which they use for this, and that they run an operation to train models to identify intrusion attempts in real time based on the resulting data. As you said though, that wouldn’t have the desired effect.

andai 3mo ago
You mean a fake copy of the entire internet? Well they already scraped it all! Heck, they can use Cerebras to generate HTTP responses dynamically!
elif 3mo ago
How do you hide the fact that they are honeypots from a super intelligence?
- mosura 3mo ago
  It doesn’t behave like a super intelligence because it is not. One of the key strengths agents have is they just keep going and going, and for cyberattacks that is often unreasonably effective. It is like a barely more aware fuzzing.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago
  These tools literally can only do what you give them access to, give them access to general tools like a linux shell and they can access to everything that comes with that obviously. The security industry figured out sandboxing and isolation a long time ago. You wanna be 100% sure it doesn't break out on open internet? Run it on a airgapped machine and don't give it network connections. OpenAI is (sadly) demonstrating they aren't responsible nor knowledgeable enough to actually run these experiments. Asking a agent harness to try whatever it wants to achieve some results, without guardrails, while running in lightweight isolation on 3rd party infrastructure? Feels like they didn't even try, people should be held responsible for this.
- nvme0n1p1 3mo ago
  We can cross that bridge once we have a super intelligence to worry about.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 3mo ago
    If the superintelligence thinks way faster than you, you'll want to be well prepared in advance.

cryo32 3mo ago

They should shut them down immediately then investigate. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary measures. If it’s rubbish those stories will stop instantly.

embedding-shape 3mo ago
> They should shut them down immediately then investigate. Yeah, I don't understand either. If there was a "hitman for hire" service on the clearweb, the police would shut it down first, then ask questions. Now we have a huge company effectively letting AI agents without guardrails run amok on 3rd party infrastructure, and the police is doing nothing?

PoignardAzur 3mo ago

> This will not happen though, because these stories are marketing. The magnitude and the complexity of the cynicism displayed by some people when it comes to AI risks is mind-blowing. It's like if the NRA reported on school shootings and people said "oh, they probably fake these shootings to make guns sound dangerous and sell more of them". OpenAI could report that its AI started spontaneously generating illegal porn and sending it to people and you'd still think it was a marketing stunt.

dgellow 3mo ago
It’s honestly something the AI vendors brought on themselves, and the fact the current US government is a bunch of corrupt kleptocrats
mosura 3mo ago
It is because a loud part of the doomerist contingent believe only a major disaster will provide the motivation for regulation, so they are practically hoping to cultivate a major disaster. (Given their preoccupation with bioweapons that probably means a pandemic). This is based on similar thinking to how the world would not have considered nuclear weapons a major threat if they had forever stayed unused. The irony of the doomer position is it achieves exactly their supposed nightmare scenario of disaster leading to authoritarian world government without any of the supposed benefits, the twist being they get to be the authoritarian world government so they are ok with it.
- PoignardAzur 3mo ago
  So your assessment of the "doomerist" position is that they believe people aren't taking AI risks seriously enough, and that only a large enough catastrophe will wake people up, and your position is we should... Ignore increasingly blatant minor catastrophes to spite them?
  - mosura 3mo ago
    This isn’t a minor catastrophe. It is OpenAI being utterly irresponsible by not sandboxing their testing appropriately, to the point it has to be deliberate to provoke uneducated hysteria, which it obviously, sadly, achieves. Sandboxing processes on networks is not exactly rocket science, and it is something their existing products would readily help them setup.

dgellow 3mo ago

Completely irresponsible to let them continue doing business as usual. That should be a complete pause of activity and FBI investigation

jmpz 3mo ago

What regulators are in charge of this?