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> A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright I think you're looking at this too much from the persp
by Aurornis 3mo ago
> A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright
I think you're looking at this too much from the perspective of someone who wants to own the phone, not as someone who wants to consider a lease.
Leases are not a new invention. A lot of people, including very financially savvy and well off people, choose to lease rather than buy depending on the circumstances.
It preserves optionality. If you get to the end of the lease period and there’s a new iPhone you want or the battery isn’t holding up, you can choose not to buy it. You don’t have to deal with selling it or trading in.
If someone doesn’t have $400 to buy out the residual then I doubt they would have had the cash to pay for the whole thing up front. I don’t understand what your argument is.
> So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one - they want to turn a one-time device purchase into a perpetual monthly revenue stream, while keeping ownership of the asset at the end.
It’s an option. They’re not turning anything into anything. Anyone who wants to buy the device can buy it. You now also have the option to lease it for 12 or 24 months and then after that you can still buy it if you want. Or you can not buy it.
It’s options. You don’t have to use it.
- paxys 3mo ago> If someone doesn’t have $400 to buy out the residual then I doubt they would have had the cash to pay for the whole thing up front. That’s the entire point. They would have bought a cheaper phone, or held on to their old one, but are now paying perpetual monthly payments. There’s a reason car dealerships never ask “how much can you afford”, but “how much do you want to pay every month”. There’s a reason Klarna is running the program for them.
- Aurornis 3mo agoYou know those financially irresponsible people don’t need this program, right? They would have used a credit card to buy it with much worse terms You seem tilted at Apple for offering a financing option, but your real gripe is apparently with some people who have poor financial decision making skills. Those people could (and probably would) do a lot worse with traditional options like a credit card. Can we at least compare apples to apples (hah) and look at the actual terms of the program here? Honestly they're not bad, and I say that as someone who leans toward purchasing outright.
- edoceo 3mo agoFrom that lens this is a better option for the "buyer" (renter). Cause revolving credit is >10%, sometimes even more than 15%!
- ChrisMarshallNY 3mo ago15%? Oh, sweet summer child... https://wallethub.com/answers/cc/highest-credit-card-interest-rate-2140660307/ https://wallethub.com/answers/cc/highest-credit-card-interes...
- edoceo 3mo agoOof.
- ghaff 3mo agoThose numbers aren't typical but it's still the case that credit cards generally have significantly higher interest rates if you don't pay in full by the due date than just about any other sort of loan (that admittedly not everyone can qualify for).
- pseudalopex 3mo agoBe kind. Don't be snarky. Edit out swipes.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ChrisMarshallNY 3mo agoIt was a joke. I still make jokes, even though it results in the occasional swipe from folks with deprecated sense of humor, that feel the need to take swipes at others. > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. From the above link, but this is largely ignored.
- edoceo 3mo ago
- Spooky23 3mo agoWhat if I don’t want to “own my phone”? Look, I have one camera with me and one child. As long as the camera gets better every year, I’m gonna want a better camera, every year. I don’t want to deal with carriers and trade-in shopping. Unfortunately this particular deal sucks compared tot he old one. I’m not financially irresponsible. I value these devices highly and value my time.
- spaqin 3mo agoNo one's really stopping you from owning nothing and being happy.
- Spooky23 3mo agoThey did - they turned a 24 month loan/AppleCare that you could re-swizzle with a new phone and exchange the device on the same terms (except the cost delta for the phone) to a shitty leasing arrangement that costs 25% more.
- adamtaylor_13 3mo ago> That’s the entire point. They would have bought a cheaper phone This kinda sounds like, "We should make it hard for people to make poor financial decisions." Which seems like an answer completely orthogonal to the problem at hand.
- pwagland 3mo agoWhat is the problem at hand? How to get customers to make poor financial decisions? How to sell more phones to people that can't really afford them? Seriously, what is the problem that is being solved?
- JumpCrisscross 3mo ago> They would have bought a cheaper phone, or held on to their old one Or they would have just bought the new phone and sold their old one for dimes on the dollar on e.g. Gazelle.
- br0wnr1c3 3mo agoI think this is exactly right — when the options on the table are: - iPhone 17 (~$800) - iPhone 17 Pro Max (~$1200) a person may reasonably make the choice that they don't need the Pro Max and buy the regular 17. Now, when the options are: - iPhone 17 ($23/month) - iPhone 17 Pro Max ($35/month) $12/month extra doesn't seem too bad, except the fact that after 24 months you can't afford to keep the phone and are effectively forced to upgrade to a new iPhone. I agree that more options are generally better for consumers, but these types of leasing programs are predatory and come at a time when everything is becoming a subscription.
- Mistletoe 3mo agoWhy on earth are we leasing phones now???
- slater 3mo agomoney number must go up?
- 0x457 3mo agoWell, lets do math: - from this thread: iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it If you upgrade your phone every 1-2 years then what you pay for the phone is something like "full cost - optimistic trade-in value". I see no reason not to do if you know you going to upgrade.
- closetohome 3mo agoThis math is what lead me to the iUp program in the first place. It's effectively a guaranteed 50% trade-in, which came out to about $200-300 in actual money that I was theoretically sacrificing in exchange for not having to worry about the cosmetic condition of the phone or weirdos on ebay. And it came with AppleCare+ with Theft and Loss. I stopped using a case. I lived free.
- madeofpalk 3mo agoPeople are keeping their phones for longer and longer. This makes it as attractive as possible to pay for a new phone at a more frequent rate. The bet here is that Apple would much rather you spend ~$35/month perpetually than $1200 every 4 years. This is a 'good deal' if you're already someone who upgrades their phone frequently, but I would imagine this would end up getting a whole bunch of people to pay more money in the long run to Apple.
- Dylan16807 3mo agoIt's also a good deal if you want to keep the phone for 8 years. Just make sure you take the buy option.
- aucisson_masque 3mo ago> It preserves optionality. If you get to the end of the lease period and there’s a new iPhone you want or the battery isn’t holding up, you can choose not to buy it. You don’t have to deal with selling it or trading in. If you don't buy it at the end of the 24 month, you've been paying for a very costly lease. 2/3 of the price for a 24 month lease whereas iphones are updated for 7, 8 years ? And the resell value is very good. Especially financially, it would make zéro sense.
- Twisell 3mo agoThat is the actual point of this program. Apple clearly pay the fees for the customers loan but at the end, the only real mistake the customer can make and might regret is switching out of the Apple ecosystem. That's clever and only mildly evil. Financial savvy people will use it as a "no fee loan" if they can't pay upfront. Less savvy will be more receptive to the commercial discourse at the end of the lease. Eco-deniers will think twice before renewing every year. And it's actually a consolidation of existing options because Apple already offered "no fee loan" here in EU but you had to choose the option to begin with. Now it's look like this is a single contract and you choose the option at the end of the lease.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- paganel 3mo ago> Leases are not a new invention. The Davos ghouls are proven right each and every day: > You'll own nothing. And you'll be happy Back to indentured servitude we go, where by "we" I mean us, the poors, not the wealthy, nor their relatively still well-off direct servants (like many of the users here working for Big Tech).
- xnx 3mo agoApple is doing this now because they know future iPhones won't be a compelling upgrade.