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> The mall had a (most likely gas) explosion If the internet searches are to be believed, that is indeed sadly likely to be the cause. The internet suggests t
by traceroute66 3mo ago
> The mall had a (most likely gas) explosion
If the internet searches are to be believed, that is indeed sadly likely to be the cause.
The internet suggests the explosion happened on the second floor of the mall where a large food court is located.
- bombcar 3mo agoA hundred years from now people are going to be absolutely flabbergasted how we just piped gas everywhere all the time. Electricity allows for so many more automatic safeguards.
- kalleboo 3mo agoYeah it's crazy to me, especially in earthquake-prone places like Japan or California. I bought a house here in Japan last year and replaced the gas with all-electric due to concerns of not only leaks and disasters but also just in day-to-day use gas isn't good for indoor air quality.
- UltraSane 3mo agoThe one place gas makes sense is heating in cold climates because furnaces are externally vented.
- bombcar 3mo agoModern ones are well done, but old chimney based ones are a notorious problem. Cooking is really the only thing where gas has real (e.g., not cost) advantages. Nobody says “this hot water just doesn’t feel right, I like it boiled by dragon’s breath”. But a steak burned with gas is different than one burned with hot electric.
- Marsymars 3mo agoIf you have the space/configuration for it, a really nice setup is an induction stove in the house, and then a gas-powered BBQ, so then you can cook outside for things that really call for gas. (Without any effect on your indoor air quality.)
- crote 3mo agoEven that is doubtful. Heat pumps are so much more efficient than combustion that it is basically a no-brainer. You're looking at "winter at McMurdo Station" weather before furnaces become a must.
- traceroute66 3mo ago> Electricity allows for so many more automatic safeguards. Since the mid-2000s there has actually been a push by Japanese utility companies for adoption of what they call "all-electric" オール電化. Adoption has been reasonably good with new-builds because they can also have solar panels. But adoption in older properties has been slower. First in general, electricity in Japan has tended to be more expensive than gas. Second, a large Part of the slow adoption comes from cooking related inertia. A lot of traditional (and therefore very common) Japanese cookware just will not work on electric, full stop. For example, traditional donabe (clay pots). Beyond that, for example, aluminium pans being non-ferromagnetic will not work on induction. Yes you find aluminium pans in the West with extra ferromagnetic bases attached, but that is not common in Japan. Finally, the Japan Society of Cookery Science did commission a study[1] where they had two groups of people cook four dishes on both gas and induction. The conclusion was gas was preferred across all four. [1]https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/cookeryscience/47/6/47_326/_article/-char/en https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/cookeryscience/47/6/47_...
- dfxm12 3mo agoThe study doesn't appear to be blind (not sure how you can do a blind cooking test). Also, The panellists were satisfied with cooking when they could control the heat as desired suggests inexperience with electric is a part of preference (as a personal anecdote, it took me a few months to get used to an electric stove in a new house after a lifetime of cooking on gas). This is also over a decade old. There have been some advancements in electric cookery since.
- lstodd 3mo agoElectrical is inadequate power delivery-wise and requires completely different cookware to the point that it's a different cuisine. For example to replicate a gas burner you have to have above 15KW continious power. Good luck wiring that into your apartment, or feeding this with local solar. Or even finding an induction stovetop that won't melt its insides in a year or two at a measly 5KW.
- klausa 3mo agoI can personally guarantee you that the average Japanese コンロ does not have a heat output that would require 15kW of power to match using IH. And that’s before we get into the safety features of modern ones that bring that limit even lower.
- qurren 3mo agohttps://www.impulselabs.com/ https://www.impulselabs.com/ achieves this by storing energy in a battery. 120V15A in to charge, 10kW out for short durations. I don't have one, but it's an interesting concept. That said, I don't know what's better, a massive lithium battery in the kitchen that can be set into thermal runaway, or a gas line. But also, most Japanese styles of cooking doesn't need those levels of power anyway. 4-5kW induction hobs running on a proper 240V outlet or whatever the Japanese industrial equivalent is are usually plenty for most professional cooking.
- account42 3mo agoI like how the video shows that you can detach the knob to clean the now flat surface ... instead of just putting the knobs somewhere other than the flat surface where food is likely to spill.
- klausa 3mo agoThis is… literally the only surface that stoves in this form factor have?
- 3mo ago
- sandworm101 3mo agoReplicating the power density of a gas pipe requires far more than 110v ac. The future might wonder why we accepted the danger of 5,000v power lines running through food courts just to avoid using gas burners.
- vel0city 3mo agoI agree there's a huge amount of energy that would need to go into a commercial kitchen to replace gas, and I also agree its probably a bit unfeasible at a lot of locations with current technology to do it at any reasonable scale and have it be economically efficient. However, you're not really being honest by suggesting things have to either be 110VAC or 5,000V. Even residentially, an electric range isn't often going to be operating at 110VAC aide from some portable single burner things, you'll likely see them operate at 208V or 240V. And when it comes to commerical equipment it'll likely be three-phase, so its not like you need a single massive conductor running thousands of volts to power it. For something like a shopping mall, you're already likely to have some pretty massive electrical infrastructure feeding the facility running at something like 13.8kV. At that step down point, do a few big 480Y three-phase runs over towards the food court, then do 208Y three-phase to the ranges. To be fair though, I'm mostly speaking from a US-grid mindset here. I don't really know the specifics about what would be done in Japan, but I imagine it would be somewhat similar. I'm also not necessarily arguing they should do it, but its not as impossible or ridiculous as you're making it seem.
- crote 3mo agoIt's about the same for an EU grid: 10ish kV to a step-down transformer for the mall, then three-phase at 400V phase-to-phase / 230V phase-to-neutral all the way to the range. It is quite common to see 125A CeeForm around large buildings here for temporary installations, and those give you 86kW of power. Supplying a fraction of that for a hard-wired range really isn't a problem.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- lynguist 3mo ago
- qurren 3mo agoAnd compressed flammable gas canisters, which are sadly common all over Asia. If they leak due to structural compromise, e.g. being squashed by falling concrete, there isn't really a shutoff valve you can use.
- doublerabbit 3mo agoEhh, without gas we wouldn't have electricity. Gas was the most efficient way to produce electricity for its time. I agree money should of been piped in to infrastructure upgrades when the ability came yet still.
- vel0city 3mo agoAbout 40% of the electricity coming to my house from the grid is from renewable sources, and I live in a state where if it was ranked against countries around the world would be the 3rd biggest natural gas producer.
- Danox 3mo agoIt’s just the price of living on the Pacific ring of fire. What are you going do give up modern living in a modern country and live in tents, it is the price to pay living on or near tectonic plates, as a resident who has lived several 6.0-7.0 magnitude quakes (California) they are much easier to live through than living in hurricane or tornado alley or living in places where there is a deep freeze every other year, although in Japan, you can get the trifecta, a earthquake, Cyclone (in the south) and a deep freeze in the north Hokkaido. Japan is a beautiful modern country and they have gotten through worse and they will get through this too. I will admit in recent times the area between the Philippines north to the Kamchatka Peninsula is one most active areas on the planet at some point a 9.0 earthquake will happen in a major populated area on land but something that large usually happens once every 15 to 326 years. The largest earthquake in California was 7.9, second largest 7.8 in San Francisco, the largest earthquake on west coast of North America 9.0 was Vancouver island in 1700. https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/official17000127050000000/impact https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/official17... Coincidentally the Japanese recorded a mild tsunami at the time on their side of the Pacific. Hurricanes and tornadoes are more immediate threats along with a heat wave or a cold snap.