4 ms·
I know some of the younger folk may not realise reality is stranger than fiction, but I too have been on a "work mandated drink alchohol bus" where I remember e
by ionwake 2mo ago
I know some of the younger folk may not realise reality is stranger than fiction, but I too have been on a "work mandated drink alchohol bus" where I remember even though I was young, I was terrified the whole time wondering why we were being forced to drink infront of C suite; forced on a hell ride through the black country ( Thats a region in England).
One might think it was naive and odd for me as a young autistic person to be so scared and negative, but sure enough, the next day the best contractor in the company was fired at 9am for calling the CEO an "alright c*nt" during the pub crawl.
The C word being used a token of affection around these parts, was perhaps not the true transgression which was, not to understand, that it was NOT a social function, but a horrifying legal flexing of soft hierarchical power, for purposes of satiating C suite ego, and humiliating everyone beneath them.
- not-kinsale-joe 2mo agoUK had the most unhinged work drinking culture I had ever seen.
- gadders 2mo agoIt's dropped off now. It was better in the 90s.
- dmos62 2mo agoCoxnfused. Was it more unhinged in the 90s or less compared to now?
- c0n5pir4cy 2mo agoMore unhinged - but a lot of people preferred it that way. To be really clear it's still pretty unhinged and even a decade ago it was much more unhinged.
- alibarber 2mo agoBeing from the UK I’m pretty sure they mean more unhinged. To be fair I did enjoy the ‘unhingedness’ but I’m also appreciating that being at least a decade younger was also great.
- ownagefool 2mo agoThere was more drinking in the 90s. You can decide whether that was better or worse.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- gadders 2mo agoMore unhinged and better, especially in banks. I had one senior stakeholder that would come back from the Pub on a Friday and complete change all his previous decisions. I think my lunchtime record was 4 1/2 pints. Another IT guy on the same session had keys to the building's small data room so let himself in and had a kip.
- fakedang 2mo agoWhen I joined the UK division of a bank, back in 2016, we had the help staff wheel drinks carts around the house evey Friday at tea time. Adding Bombay Sapphire to your tea was pretty much the norm. Didn't stay long because I got a PE offer at an American firm in their London office very quickly, and the culture there was so staid and lonely in comparison. Part of the reason why we have an office bar with a bartender too set up at my current office. I don't drink, but nothing like drinks to help with bringing people together right after work.
- gadders 2mo agoI remember one head of trading had a fridge in his office and various bottles of whiskey for a cheeky drink.
- dmos62 2mo agoI doubt I could walk properly after having 4+ pints in a 1-2 hour window. Presuming it's 4%+ alcohol. You either need to be pretty young or have a pretty accustomed liver, or is it just me?
- gadders 2mo agoI would have been mid to late 20s. I can't swear I was very productive afterwards. Sleeping in a toilet cubicle was also a thing. University in the UK is (or was) a great training ground for livers.
- rwmj 2mo agoIt was pretty mad in the 90s, but I don't recall anyone ever being forced into it at companies I worked for. A company mandated "alcohol bus" sounds ridiculous then and now.
- psd1 2mo agoAmen. I only got my first job in tech because i put away 6 pints in the pub after the interview. We conducted interviews after lunch, for this exact purpose. I saw good candidates interview but decline the pub afterwards - they did not get offers. That company had at least two pub sessions a week, typically running to six rounds or more. We hit our medically-recommended maximum weekly intake by Tuesday; Fridays were carnage.
- 72deluxe 2mo agoThis sounds like hell. At one place I worked, they had free pizza on Fridays so the developers could sit around and socialise. If only they realised that socialising was the last thing the developers wanted to do (many of us on the spectrum) and awkwardly standing around chewing whilst avoiding eye contact; I wonder if they still do it? Pubs sound even worse.
- alibarber 2mo agoI know this sounds awful - but perhaps hiring people that would turn their workplace into what you just described was exactly what they (as an organisation, not necessarily individually) wanted to avoid, just, perhaps not by overtly saying it.
- 72deluxe 2mo agoPerhaps, but if they wanted any of their 6 million lines of COM-laden C++ to continue working into the future, they'd need those sort of people.
- piguin 2mo agoNo, that's a bit reverse prejudice and also a bit wrong on assumptions. If you bring in people who are levels above they aren't inherently on the spectrum and it's once you bring them in that you have a dependence on finding more instead of working at a complexity and expertise level that might be more maintainable.
- thom 2mo agoMy first job out of university was with a large local news organization. It's the only place I've worked that had beer on tap in its cafeteria (from 11am). You haven't seen workplace alcoholism until you've worked with a county cricket correspondent.
- regexorcist 2mo agoIndeed, and I kinda miss it. My first couple IT jobs were right in Central London and we would all religiously meet at the pub after work, along with hundreds from other companies of all kinds. The banter was glorious.
- alibarber 2mo agoSame - in Soho on a nice (or even not that nice) Friday (or Monday, or Thursday) the whole place would just be one big open air pub. You'd meet so many great people - the atmosphere was just wonderful. Then COVID came around and I also moved to Finland where that sort of thing is just unheard of.
- jamesfmilne 2mo agoYeah, I worked in Soho for about 14 years and most Thursdays were out at the Pillars of Hercules or Dog & Duck. Fridays are for the out-of-towners. The company has moved to Bermondsey now, and to be fair the drinks-after-work culture seems to still going fairly strong around this part of town. The biggest spanner in the works has been my cohort all having kids and not having the spare time to socialise after work. Definitely miss all that. My liver & pancreas don't miss it though, so it's probably for the best.
- nickkell 2mo agoSimilarly I moved to Germany. The office here is mostly deserted by 16:00. In a way I respect their ability to completely split their work and social lives, but it's not particularly fun for me - especially starting from scratch in a new city.
- Earw0rm 2mo agoMostly in the past tense now, for better or worse.
- ajb 2mo agoWhile the alcohol consumption can be a bit nuts, the UK has a relatively strong cultural tradition that what happens in the pub stays in the pub. That makes it a useful low-risk way to air work issues that would not be raised in a work meeting, either because criticism would be taken as an offense, or just because the person raising them would not get to speak to the person that needs to hear. Of course, there's nothing enforcing that managers respect it. The main mechanism is that many managers realise it's in their interests to be able to hear unvarnished truths, and for their team to be able to relieve their feelings outside work instead of inside. And for them to be able to get to know their team better. But not all have the integrity or humility to do so.
- stasomatic 2mo agoI was in London a couple of months ago. That day there were 2 (or demonstrations), something to do with Palestine and the other with internal UK politics, around the Big Ben / Buckingham palace. Ended up dragged into to the current of the latter on, could basically body surf If I had an inclination. It seemed everyone was drunk, women / men, old/ young. I didn't know you get so drunk on beer. Also, was the first time I've ever seen portable open urinals, where grown man took out their Johnsons in public and released the beer back into the wild.
- GJim 2mo ago> UK had the most unhinged work drinking culture I had ever seen I prefer the term 'enlightened'. Here in Blighty, if somebody got rat-arsed at an office party, photocopied their arse and puked in the Yucca plant, they would be regarded as an absolute legend (providing they didn't make a habit of it).
- galangalalgol 2mo agoHave the recent studies indicating just how dangerous alcohol consumption is made any impact. Losing a few neurons was one thing but some of the studies don't put it as much less dangerous than tobacco. New guidance in the US is there is no safe quantity and no one should have more than one serving a day. I know a lot of younger sw devs in the US that simply do not drink ever. I once would have said that was a little unusual, but now it is the norm. I suspect it will be stigmatized akin to smoking not that far into the future.
- butlike 2mo agoEverything kills you. At least alcohol feels good.
- galangalalgol 2mo agoYeah, but its always a trade right? Heroin would kill me too fast for the upside. The trade on alcohol wasn't what I thought it was. I think there are better options. Says I as I lift a cider.
- croisillon 2mo agoi'd believe the C-word is naturally made for the C-suite
- gib444 2mo agoUK here too. I've seen so many people fired after a work event with a free bar I'm starting to wonder if it's an HR strategy (eg to weed out the cocky sales people who would end up embarrassing the company. It's a trial run for late nights with clients) > NOT a social function, but a horrifying legal flexing of soft hierarchical power, for purposes of satiating C suite ego, and humiliating everyone beneath them. Very well described!
- ionwake 2mo agoFirst compliment in living memory on HN thank you
- varispeed 2mo agoI remember calling the whole board "cunts" to their faces. They all laughed. Then I remember CEO only in his underwear emptying bottle of whisky into his mouth, shouting "I'll fucking fuck everyone in this bitch!" and then collapsing. His PA and another employee then dragged him to his room. The 2000s were wild. Now I consider anything involving alcohol as abusive. If company has a drinking "culture" or going to pub after work, I nope out.
- archibaldJ 2mo agoput them into a Cartesian Closed Category and you an emulate the whole thing with LLMs.
- cosmodisk 2mo agoI had a few company events that could easily become the foundation for one of those films where the main characters wake up in the morning in some random Asian country. No matter how crazy people go in these parties, there's always someone watching it and taking mental notes. I stopped getting too drunk in these events since I got into more senior Nowadays my aim is usually to rescue my colleagues and get them home safely:)
- ljm 2mo agoAt risk of sounding like a grump, once I started at a company where almost everyone is partnered up and has kids, and almost everyone basically has nothing to talk about except their partners and kids, I had the perfect incentive to stay away from almost all social events. Or stick around for an hour at most because of how boring it is. It became pretty clear that drinking culture in a lot of places develops around people having a lot in common, and certainly becomes worse when one of those things in common is 'enjoying drinking'. I don't mind this. I had all of my 20s and most of my 30s for drinking after work. Now it's not really something I care about.
- TFNA 2mo agoMe, I've embraced occupational pubgoing as a childless person in my forties because unlike other social activities, it is a way to avoid boring people with children. At least in my country, those men get forced to stay at home, the missus won't allow them to go out socially into the evening.
- chrisldgk 2mo agoI remember at the ad agency I used to work at (somewhere around 2018) we used to have a happy hour every Friday where from 5pm onwards all drinks (including booze) in the cafeteria were free, which led to people of all departments including C-Suite to get together and drink. I remember it as a good time though, I don’t remember anything ever happening that led to people having repercussions for employees. Then again, this is German drinking culture and the stiffest drink you could have was wine, so people wouldn’t usually get wasted, just tipsy. The Christmas parties were a different breed though. HR definitely had a lot of work to do after those.
- canpan 2mo agoJapan here and there is a word for it "nominication" for nomu (to drink) and communication. Instead of Christmas party we have a year end party (bonenkai). Otherwise reads the same. It's common and many people actually like it. There can be negatives, like the pressure to drink too much. But I never heard of anyone getting fired in all my social circle.
- yencabulator 2mo agoOutside of Japan, the idea of bureikō is not necessarily similarly part of the culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomikai#Nomikai_etiquette https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomikai#Nomikai_etiquette
- lelanthran 2mo agoWhen I was still in my early 20s, at my first office job, drinks after hours (beer, wine) were free from the company kitchen. Only took part once (because I was new, first week and all), saw how openly employees spoke to the directors (luckily nothing came of it), and never again in my life ever consumed alcohol in front of a boss. As GP said, it's a full on soft power thing - always keep your wits about you when in the presence of colleagues and bosses. There is no safe space at work; you can be fired!
- butlike 2mo ago
- whateverboat 2mo agoI don't drink at work. It's simple as that. I treat every retreat as work trip. I am professional. No gossip, nothing.
- sEver_codEs 2mo agoNarrator: The CEO wasn't in fact, an "allright c*nt" after all.
- ionwake 2mo agoI just laughed out loud on the train
- xnx 2mo agoWas the CEO David Brent?
- DoctorOetker 2mo agoThis is precisely what Stalin did during the Great Terror, getting the rest of the leadership drunk in order to learn their true opinions, or discover who drunk-subtly winked at whom during what remark, etc.
- crosskayla 2mo agoI love the way you wrote that. Also your profile is hilarious.