5 ms·

Yeah, but unlike China we have laws and ways to fight against it. China can and will do whatever the fuck they want they don't have to listen to the people of C

Yeah, but unlike China we have laws and ways to fight against it. China can and will do whatever the fuck they want they don't have to listen to the people of China.

sodapopcan 2mo ago
The US has been doing whatever the fuck it wants without listening to its people lately, though.
- impulser_ 2mo ago
  Well good thing we have elections.
  - sodapopcan 2mo ago
    Every four years!
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
  - forafistfulof 2mo ago
    You have "representative democracy". It is not the same as democracy, whatever you had been told in school. And since 2001 it is painfully clear: whichever representative you had, eventually he went to throw bombs on people, and no one asked joe if he liked that.
sanderjd 2mo ago
The problem is that at the current moment with the current administration, it does not seem like we do "have laws and ways to fight against it". I'm more optimistic about the likelihood of the US system of government to heal itself than that statement might seem to imply. But it's just also the case that at the current moment in the US, the rule of law is very much under threat. And as your comment suggests, that same rule of law is a very important thing to the way of life in the US. It's a very bad situation that we've allowed ourselves to slouch into.
- impulser_ 2mo ago
  Well that what the people voted for. In a few months you can replace these people that allow this. Good luck replacing anyone in the goverment of China.
  - sanderjd 2mo ago
    This is not an argument that the Chinese system of government is better than the US system. Like I said, I'm more optimistic than a lot of people I know that the US will be able to pull out of the tailspin we've been in for the past decade. But it's also imminently reasonable to believe that this episode has raised real questions about the durability of the rule of law in this country.
    - sodapopcan 2mo ago
      > this episode has raised real questions about the durability of the rule of law in this country. Ya, I'm not American, but I have seen people say "we can vote them out" a few times now. Assuming the democrats take the next election, they are going to have a massive mess to clean up with much of the damage not even being reversible. With peoples' fickle nature and seeming that is a very big right-leaning population in the US, there's a non-zero chance the Republicans just get voted back in four years later. Whose to say?
      - sanderjd 2mo ago
        So, this might not be clear as an outsider to American politics, but to me this is not a "Republican vs. Democrat" thing. To me, it's about what kinds of Republicans and what kinds of Democrats are elected. To me, as an American, what has happened this past decade is that a ton of vulnerabilities in the rule of law (and other things, but this is the one I care most about) have been exposed. But it's not a given that the next Republican president will take advantage of those vulnerabilities in the way the current president has. They might end up being a reformer who seeks to fix those glitches! But on the more pessimistic side of the same coin, it's also not a given that the next Democrat will seek to fix the glitches rather than saying "they had eight years to take advantage of these vulnerabilities, we're going to do the same to make up for that and even the playing field!". It's just very hard to know what is going to happen from here. So I'm very sympathetic to people in other countries not trusting us.
vhantz 2mo ago
The american state routinely shoots and kills its own citizens in broad daylight with 0 repercussions. Thinking it answers to its citizens is severely deluded.
- krapp 2mo ago
  [flagged]
svachalek 2mo ago
Largely hypothetical, not very effective ways to fight against it. Meanwhile we have the entire Pacific Ocean and US Military between us and China.

Yeah, but unlike China we have laws and ways to fight against it. China can and will do whatever the fuck they want they don't have to listen to the people of China.

sodapopcan 2mo ago

The US has been doing whatever the fuck it wants without listening to its people lately, though.

impulser_ 2mo ago
Well good thing we have elections.
- sodapopcan 2mo ago
  Every four years!
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
- forafistfulof 2mo ago
  You have "representative democracy". It is not the same as democracy, whatever you had been told in school. And since 2001 it is painfully clear: whichever representative you had, eventually he went to throw bombs on people, and no one asked joe if he liked that.

sanderjd 2mo ago

The problem is that at the current moment with the current administration, it does not seem like we do "have laws and ways to fight against it". I'm more optimistic about the likelihood of the US system of government to heal itself than that statement might seem to imply. But it's just also the case that at the current moment in the US, the rule of law is very much under threat. And as your comment suggests, that same rule of law is a very important thing to the way of life in the US. It's a very bad situation that we've allowed ourselves to slouch into.

impulser_ 2mo ago
Well that what the people voted for. In a few months you can replace these people that allow this. Good luck replacing anyone in the goverment of China.
- sanderjd 2mo ago
  This is not an argument that the Chinese system of government is better than the US system. Like I said, I'm more optimistic than a lot of people I know that the US will be able to pull out of the tailspin we've been in for the past decade. But it's also imminently reasonable to believe that this episode has raised real questions about the durability of the rule of law in this country.
  - sodapopcan 2mo ago
    > this episode has raised real questions about the durability of the rule of law in this country. Ya, I'm not American, but I have seen people say "we can vote them out" a few times now. Assuming the democrats take the next election, they are going to have a massive mess to clean up with much of the damage not even being reversible. With peoples' fickle nature and seeming that is a very big right-leaning population in the US, there's a non-zero chance the Republicans just get voted back in four years later. Whose to say?
    - sanderjd 2mo ago
      So, this might not be clear as an outsider to American politics, but to me this is not a "Republican vs. Democrat" thing. To me, it's about what kinds of Republicans and what kinds of Democrats are elected. To me, as an American, what has happened this past decade is that a ton of vulnerabilities in the rule of law (and other things, but this is the one I care most about) have been exposed. But it's not a given that the next Republican president will take advantage of those vulnerabilities in the way the current president has. They might end up being a reformer who seeks to fix those glitches! But on the more pessimistic side of the same coin, it's also not a given that the next Democrat will seek to fix the glitches rather than saying "they had eight years to take advantage of these vulnerabilities, we're going to do the same to make up for that and even the playing field!". It's just very hard to know what is going to happen from here. So I'm very sympathetic to people in other countries not trusting us.

vhantz 2mo ago

The american state routinely shoots and kills its own citizens in broad daylight with 0 repercussions. Thinking it answers to its citizens is severely deluded.

krapp 2mo ago
[flagged]

svachalek 2mo ago

Largely hypothetical, not very effective ways to fight against it. Meanwhile we have the entire Pacific Ocean and US Military between us and China.