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It would be one thing if Europe immediately stopped using coal, drastically reduced airline usage, quit building gasoline cars, but if anything it is only margi

It would be one thing if Europe immediately stopped using coal, drastically reduced airline usage, quit building gasoline cars, but if anything it is only marginally better than the US. Europe mostly shifted their dirty work to Asia and North America, while restricting themselves from using air conditioning as some kind of virtue signaling. That's the problem as I see it.

kakacik 2mo ago
We literally destroyed our car industry to try to steer the incoming catastrophe a bit, what the fuck do you want more. Germany tried to be the leader of solar but that was stolen err migrated to China, whole world profits now. While US, China and rest of the world did nothing similar, just stood and let shit hit the fan hard. Gotta milk those petrodollars till the last cent because thats all that counts, fuck our children right. Yeah we are not going to burn ourselves further to the cinder to prove some anonymous yostrovs something he anyway refuses to see.
- cromka 2mo ago
  Agreed, but then there's also Norway, the absolute champ of hypocrisy.
- stinkbeetle 2mo ago
  You destroyed your auto industry by ceding it to countries with higher emission intensity of production. USA, China, Japan have higher intensity than even Germany which is on the upper end of Western European countries. That's not steering anywhere except more sharply into the wall! You've been lied to by your own ruling class. What else have they been lying to you about, I wonder?
- yostrovs 2mo ago
  You also turned off nuclear power and stayed with lignite, the dirtiest of coals. Soon you'll stop using coal since you won't have much industry left to power. Germany seems confused.
bcoughlan 2mo ago
There's a lot to criticise of every country, but we're trying. The US is not trying (*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement#/media/File:ParisAgreement.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement#/media/File:Pa... * Not aimed at all the wonderful, sane and reasonable people of the USA.
- robmusial 2mo ago
  > The US is not trying https://usclimatealliance.org/ https://usclimatealliance.org/ I don't expect people outside of the U.S. to keep up on state level politics but it is worth noting that many in the U.S. are trying and given our form of government state level action isn't anything to sneeze at.
  - pibaker 2mo ago
    Go stand in your local Walmart parking lot and ask ten people if they know what the climate alliance is or if their state is in it. I'll wire you ten fresh bucks if you find one person who has an idea what that is,
- _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
  There is no such thing as a binding 'agreement' like this in the USA system of government. We have treaties. That have to be ratified by the Senate. The governments of the world understood this, and understood that the Paris climate agreement was an attempt by the US executive branch at the time to bluff to a hollow 'deal' (instead of creating a true binding treaty) hoping future politicians would be too embarrassed to go against it. It was incredibly disingenuous/misleading of the United States Executive branch at the time to do play politics this way outside of the actual US system of treaties. It was part of the breaking of American laws/norms by the executive that led us to where we are today (with chaos, tribalism instead of a legal system, and a breakdown of our government).
  - tacomonstrous 2mo ago
    Hmm... If only there were a tangible reason why a treaty would have been impossible to get through the US Congress as currently constituted.
puttycat 2mo ago
This. Add to the list: consuming huge amounts of meat while depriving themselves of AC "for the planet".
- omnimus 2mo ago
  In terms of greenhouse it also depends on type of meat. Very acidental but europeans eat much less beef and eat pork/chicken instead. Chicken protein for example is in many cases better than cheese emission wise. Also i don't think europeans don't use AC to save the planet. It's just expensive and it didn't use to be a problem.
  - throw-the-towel 2mo ago
    I wonder if pork is better than beef for the environment.
    - fragmede 2mo ago
      Pork, by a bunch. Lower land use, lower greenhouse gas emissions, less water use.
      - Windchaser 2mo ago
        Not ethically better, though. At least in the US, 99% of all pork is factory-farmed, and in much of that the pigs live their whole lives in a stall too small to turn around in. Pigs are as smart as dogs, and have personalities and emotions. I am absolutely a carnivore, but I still balk at eating meat raised through a system that just about tortures intelligent animals. Anyways: I eat a lot more chicken and plant protein these days.
  - Danox 2mo ago
    Paris didn’t have air-conditioning because they sit at a latitude of 49 where in the past you might have a week maybe two of sustained high temperatures above 90°, since Paris sits at a latitude of 49 which is north of the United States-Canadian border all the way from Vancouver to the lake of the woods Minnesota. Which is hardly air-conditioning country above latitude 49 although obviously climate change may change that, but there was no point having air-conditioning that far north in the past for two weeks of possible hot weather, a resident living in the American southwest who will never have a white Christmas ever and air conditioning was always a must.
tpm 2mo ago
> if Europe immediately stopped using coal, drastically reduced airline usage, quit building gasoline cars we (the EU, not Europe) are indeed phasing out coal (most countries are already done) and EVs are at 24% of the market (June 26) which is about 4x the US EV marketshare and rising fast. > Europe mostly shifted their dirty work to Asia and North America There is a carbon tariff (CBAM) for some imports, will be gradually expanded in the next few years. That' not marginally better, that's way way better.

kakacik 2mo ago

We literally destroyed our car industry to try to steer the incoming catastrophe a bit, what the fuck do you want more. Germany tried to be the leader of solar but that was stolen err migrated to China, whole world profits now. While US, China and rest of the world did nothing similar, just stood and let shit hit the fan hard. Gotta milk those petrodollars till the last cent because thats all that counts, fuck our children right. Yeah we are not going to burn ourselves further to the cinder to prove some anonymous yostrovs something he anyway refuses to see.

cromka 2mo ago
Agreed, but then there's also Norway, the absolute champ of hypocrisy.
stinkbeetle 2mo ago
You destroyed your auto industry by ceding it to countries with higher emission intensity of production. USA, China, Japan have higher intensity than even Germany which is on the upper end of Western European countries. That's not steering anywhere except more sharply into the wall! You've been lied to by your own ruling class. What else have they been lying to you about, I wonder?
yostrovs 2mo ago
You also turned off nuclear power and stayed with lignite, the dirtiest of coals. Soon you'll stop using coal since you won't have much industry left to power. Germany seems confused.

bcoughlan 2mo ago

There's a lot to criticise of every country, but we're trying. The US is not trying (*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement#/media/File:ParisAgreement.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement#/media/File:Pa... * Not aimed at all the wonderful, sane and reasonable people of the USA.

robmusial 2mo ago
> The US is not trying https://usclimatealliance.org/ https://usclimatealliance.org/ I don't expect people outside of the U.S. to keep up on state level politics but it is worth noting that many in the U.S. are trying and given our form of government state level action isn't anything to sneeze at.
- pibaker 2mo ago
  Go stand in your local Walmart parking lot and ask ten people if they know what the climate alliance is or if their state is in it. I'll wire you ten fresh bucks if you find one person who has an idea what that is,
_DeadFred_ 2mo ago
There is no such thing as a binding 'agreement' like this in the USA system of government. We have treaties. That have to be ratified by the Senate. The governments of the world understood this, and understood that the Paris climate agreement was an attempt by the US executive branch at the time to bluff to a hollow 'deal' (instead of creating a true binding treaty) hoping future politicians would be too embarrassed to go against it. It was incredibly disingenuous/misleading of the United States Executive branch at the time to do play politics this way outside of the actual US system of treaties. It was part of the breaking of American laws/norms by the executive that led us to where we are today (with chaos, tribalism instead of a legal system, and a breakdown of our government).
- tacomonstrous 2mo ago
  Hmm... If only there were a tangible reason why a treaty would have been impossible to get through the US Congress as currently constituted.

puttycat 2mo ago

This. Add to the list: consuming huge amounts of meat while depriving themselves of AC "for the planet".

omnimus 2mo ago
In terms of greenhouse it also depends on type of meat. Very acidental but europeans eat much less beef and eat pork/chicken instead. Chicken protein for example is in many cases better than cheese emission wise. Also i don't think europeans don't use AC to save the planet. It's just expensive and it didn't use to be a problem.
- throw-the-towel 2mo ago
  I wonder if pork is better than beef for the environment.
  - fragmede 2mo ago
    Pork, by a bunch. Lower land use, lower greenhouse gas emissions, less water use.
    - Windchaser 2mo ago
      Not ethically better, though. At least in the US, 99% of all pork is factory-farmed, and in much of that the pigs live their whole lives in a stall too small to turn around in. Pigs are as smart as dogs, and have personalities and emotions. I am absolutely a carnivore, but I still balk at eating meat raised through a system that just about tortures intelligent animals. Anyways: I eat a lot more chicken and plant protein these days.
- Danox 2mo ago
  Paris didn’t have air-conditioning because they sit at a latitude of 49 where in the past you might have a week maybe two of sustained high temperatures above 90°, since Paris sits at a latitude of 49 which is north of the United States-Canadian border all the way from Vancouver to the lake of the woods Minnesota. Which is hardly air-conditioning country above latitude 49 although obviously climate change may change that, but there was no point having air-conditioning that far north in the past for two weeks of possible hot weather, a resident living in the American southwest who will never have a white Christmas ever and air conditioning was always a must.

tpm 2mo ago

> if Europe immediately stopped using coal, drastically reduced airline usage, quit building gasoline cars we (the EU, not Europe) are indeed phasing out coal (most countries are already done) and EVs are at 24% of the market (June 26) which is about 4x the US EV marketshare and rising fast. > Europe mostly shifted their dirty work to Asia and North America There is a carbon tariff (CBAM) for some imports, will be gradually expanded in the next few years. That' not marginally better, that's way way better.