6 ms·

As part of the SAFE EU financial instrument Romania is spending a lot of cash on defense measures for drones and other armament[1]. Currently still relying heav

by cbg0 3mo ago

As part of the SAFE EU financial instrument Romania is spending a lot of cash on defense measures for drones and other armament[1]. Currently still relying heavily on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flakpanzer_Gepard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flakpanzer_Gepard for anti-air as well as fighter jets with air-to-air missiles, as these recent drones were all brought down by F-16s. Aside from strategic targets, a lot of the civilian infrastructure is quite vulnerable to drone attacks as there's a huge border to cover and definitely not enough anti-drone tech deployed. An apartment building was hit months ago with no casualties: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/apartment-building-hit-by-drone-romanias-galati-close-ukraine-border-radio-says-2026-05-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/apartment-building-hit-... [1] https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/media/news-watch/news/2026/06/2026-06-02-major-historic-contract-in-romania-worth-5-7-billion https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/media/news-watch/news/2026/06...

sneak 3mo ago
F-16s with human pilots and a2a missiles vs cheap drones? That’s one hell of an asymmetry and doesn’t seem robust enough to handle 100x the scale.
- cbg0 3mo ago
  It's not meant to. That's why Ukraine receives the support it does, because they take the brunt of it.
- pantalaimon 3mo ago
  Yea the Gepard seems like a much better fit for those cheap drones. Unfortunately it's been long discontinued and it's successor Skyranger is still facing some technical difficulties as of recent reports.
- uxhacker 3mo ago
  Ukraine is using old training aircraft with a guy with a shotgun in the back shooting the drones down. Just think the small Cessnas and pipers littered around that could be used for a similar task. https://youtu.be/GrzzYTXgnMQ?is=zChAgYfc5ZEi25gt https://youtu.be/GrzzYTXgnMQ?is=zChAgYfc5ZEi25gt Edited out bad grammer
  - doodlebugging 3mo ago
    Kinda reminds one of the evolution of the air war during WWI. Planes were used as observation platforms to gather intelligence about enemy fortifications and activities. They were more mobile than balloons and could gather more timely information. Both sides flew past each other just doing their jobs until someone thought they could drop a grenade or small bomb as they surveilled the other guy. Then aerial bombing started to become popular. Around the same time pilots armed themselves and would take pot-shots at enemy pilots, usually with sidearms. Before long machine guns were fitted to planes and synchronized with propellers and pilots were able to dogfight. I think the next natural step in Russia's defense against Ukrainian drones countermeasures like this, shooting them down with shotguns, will be to arm the drones. Then it will be up to Ukraine to counter that threat and the cycle continues as always.
    - brabel 3mo ago
      The advantage of using a drone is that it is cheap to produce, but it needs to be really simple to stay cheap. Arming it with a machine gun that can target an airplane trying to shoot it down would be very expensive.
      - cineticdaffodil 3mo ago
        Not really. They are already in service.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=As_cifXH1Fs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=As_cifXH1Fs
  - geoka9 2mo ago
    A rifle most likely - you probably don't want to be within the shotgun range when the drone explodes.
- bell-cot 3mo ago
  Yeah, obviously F-16's & humans scale very poorly for this. However: - At one-a-day scale, political and risk considerations probably favor the expensive solution. - Using F-16's reveals nothing about your current anti-drone defenses. (Yeah, it's also a real-world basic competence test for your air force - for better and for worse.) - If your intel people want more data on the drones, an F-16 can haul a whole lotta intel-gathering equipment to the show. - If you're dealing internally with some head-in-the-sand traditionalists dragging their heels on updating your doctrine/equipment/training to deal with drones, then "real world, right now" examples are probably useful. (BTW - do the articles say "a2a missile" anywhere? F-16's typically mount a 20mm cannon, a cheap drone is not a hard target, and cannon rounds are dirt cheap by compare.)
  - nradov 3mo ago
    Ukrainian F-16s have used cannons to shoot down some Russian drones. Cheaper than a missile, but a somewhat risky maneuver as it requires getting close at low altitude and possibly flying through the exploding debris. https://www.zona-militar.com/en/2026/02/09/ukrainian-f-16am-fighting-falcon-fighters-continue-hunting-russian-drones-with-their-m61-vulcan-cannons/ https://www.zona-militar.com/en/2026/02/09/ukrainian-f-16am-...
    - bell-cot 3mo ago
      Thanks. With the relative speeds, I'd guess the Falcons would use an attack profile similar to ground strafing - letting them pass well above the cloud of debris. Any thoughts? Also, Wikipedia gives a 3km effective firing range for the M61 - but it'd be no surprise if the F-16's standard targeting optics can't achieve that against small airborne targets.
      - nradov 3mo ago
        This video shows a Ukrainian F-16 doing just that along with reactions from a pair of experienced US fighter pilots. It seems they're shooting from closer than 3km. https://youtu.be/xuriiDzSB5k https://youtu.be/xuriiDzSB5k
- numpad0 3mo ago
  Yeah, something is preventing them from just putting a small autocannon onto a turret and firing it from a Python script on a laptop. Russian drones and missiles seem to be just straight flying kinds, and while there are reports of Stinger type missiles seen installed on them, there haven't been reports of them growing anti-mortar radars. Most of them shouldn't need guided munitions at all to deal with.
  - smackeyacky 3mo ago
    Time to revive the Sopwith Camel
alephnerd 3mo ago
> Romania is spending a lot of cash on defense measures for drones and other armament Some of this is going to be stalled - Romania was planning on deploying the Iron Dome [0] and Spyder [1] for AD which was going to be co-produced by Volkswagen in their German factories that were on the chopping block, but Qatar (Volkswagen's largest minority shareholder with 17% voting share) blocked that deal [2]. [0] - https://www.jpost.com/international/article-861770 https://www.jpost.com/international/article-861770 [1] - https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/sy1n3pcfzx https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/sy1n3pcfzx [2] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-07-10/qatar-blocks-defense-joint-venture-between-vw-and-israeli-firm https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-07-10/qatar-blo...
- rjzzleep 3mo ago
  Iron Dome is designed for protecting from home made rockets made with dung from the Gaza Strip. And according to research the main reason for the low casualty rate is actually the early warning. How exactly is it supposed to help with real missiles and drones? How do these scams keep happening? Why doesn't anyone care how their taxpayer money is spent?
  - iwontberude 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - dragonwriter 3mo ago
      If the country has to survive and recover rather quickly, not collapse, for your prosecution scenario to be likely and effective against any significant share of the people who caused this.
      - ithkuil 3mo ago
        It's astonishing how many people really seem to think that total collapse / destruction of a system can be an effective way for fixing things

by cbg0 3mo ago

sneak 3mo ago

F-16s with human pilots and a2a missiles vs cheap drones? That’s one hell of an asymmetry and doesn’t seem robust enough to handle 100x the scale.

cbg0 3mo ago
It's not meant to. That's why Ukraine receives the support it does, because they take the brunt of it.
pantalaimon 3mo ago
Yea the Gepard seems like a much better fit for those cheap drones. Unfortunately it's been long discontinued and it's successor Skyranger is still facing some technical difficulties as of recent reports.
uxhacker 3mo ago
Ukraine is using old training aircraft with a guy with a shotgun in the back shooting the drones down. Just think the small Cessnas and pipers littered around that could be used for a similar task. https://youtu.be/GrzzYTXgnMQ?is=zChAgYfc5ZEi25gt https://youtu.be/GrzzYTXgnMQ?is=zChAgYfc5ZEi25gt Edited out bad grammer
- doodlebugging 3mo ago
  Kinda reminds one of the evolution of the air war during WWI. Planes were used as observation platforms to gather intelligence about enemy fortifications and activities. They were more mobile than balloons and could gather more timely information. Both sides flew past each other just doing their jobs until someone thought they could drop a grenade or small bomb as they surveilled the other guy. Then aerial bombing started to become popular. Around the same time pilots armed themselves and would take pot-shots at enemy pilots, usually with sidearms. Before long machine guns were fitted to planes and synchronized with propellers and pilots were able to dogfight. I think the next natural step in Russia's defense against Ukrainian drones countermeasures like this, shooting them down with shotguns, will be to arm the drones. Then it will be up to Ukraine to counter that threat and the cycle continues as always.
  - brabel 3mo ago
    The advantage of using a drone is that it is cheap to produce, but it needs to be really simple to stay cheap. Arming it with a machine gun that can target an airplane trying to shoot it down would be very expensive.
    - cineticdaffodil 3mo ago
      Not really. They are already in service.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=As_cifXH1Fs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=As_cifXH1Fs
- geoka9 2mo ago
  A rifle most likely - you probably don't want to be within the shotgun range when the drone explodes.
bell-cot 3mo ago
Yeah, obviously F-16's & humans scale very poorly for this. However: - At one-a-day scale, political and risk considerations probably favor the expensive solution. - Using F-16's reveals nothing about your current anti-drone defenses. (Yeah, it's also a real-world basic competence test for your air force - for better and for worse.) - If your intel people want more data on the drones, an F-16 can haul a whole lotta intel-gathering equipment to the show. - If you're dealing internally with some head-in-the-sand traditionalists dragging their heels on updating your doctrine/equipment/training to deal with drones, then "real world, right now" examples are probably useful. (BTW - do the articles say "a2a missile" anywhere? F-16's typically mount a 20mm cannon, a cheap drone is not a hard target, and cannon rounds are dirt cheap by compare.)
- nradov 3mo ago
  Ukrainian F-16s have used cannons to shoot down some Russian drones. Cheaper than a missile, but a somewhat risky maneuver as it requires getting close at low altitude and possibly flying through the exploding debris. https://www.zona-militar.com/en/2026/02/09/ukrainian-f-16am-fighting-falcon-fighters-continue-hunting-russian-drones-with-their-m61-vulcan-cannons/ https://www.zona-militar.com/en/2026/02/09/ukrainian-f-16am-...
  - bell-cot 3mo ago
    Thanks. With the relative speeds, I'd guess the Falcons would use an attack profile similar to ground strafing - letting them pass well above the cloud of debris. Any thoughts? Also, Wikipedia gives a 3km effective firing range for the M61 - but it'd be no surprise if the F-16's standard targeting optics can't achieve that against small airborne targets.
    - nradov 3mo ago
      This video shows a Ukrainian F-16 doing just that along with reactions from a pair of experienced US fighter pilots. It seems they're shooting from closer than 3km. https://youtu.be/xuriiDzSB5k https://youtu.be/xuriiDzSB5k
numpad0 3mo ago
Yeah, something is preventing them from just putting a small autocannon onto a turret and firing it from a Python script on a laptop. Russian drones and missiles seem to be just straight flying kinds, and while there are reports of Stinger type missiles seen installed on them, there haven't been reports of them growing anti-mortar radars. Most of them shouldn't need guided munitions at all to deal with.
- smackeyacky 3mo ago
  Time to revive the Sopwith Camel

alephnerd 3mo ago

> Romania is spending a lot of cash on defense measures for drones and other armament Some of this is going to be stalled - Romania was planning on deploying the Iron Dome [0] and Spyder [1] for AD which was going to be co-produced by Volkswagen in their German factories that were on the chopping block, but Qatar (Volkswagen's largest minority shareholder with 17% voting share) blocked that deal [2]. [0] - https://www.jpost.com/international/article-861770 https://www.jpost.com/international/article-861770 [1] - https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/sy1n3pcfzx https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/sy1n3pcfzx [2] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-07-10/qatar-blocks-defense-joint-venture-between-vw-and-israeli-firm https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-07-10/qatar-blo...

rjzzleep 3mo ago
Iron Dome is designed for protecting from home made rockets made with dung from the Gaza Strip. And according to research the main reason for the low casualty rate is actually the early warning. How exactly is it supposed to help with real missiles and drones? How do these scams keep happening? Why doesn't anyone care how their taxpayer money is spent?
- iwontberude 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - dragonwriter 3mo ago
    If the country has to survive and recover rather quickly, not collapse, for your prosecution scenario to be likely and effective against any significant share of the people who caused this.
    - ithkuil 3mo ago
      It's astonishing how many people really seem to think that total collapse / destruction of a system can be an effective way for fixing things